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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
REU use
I've been thinking about some design ideas. Many use VICE, 1541Ultra etc. and support REUs.
How common is the 128 KB REU?
Is it reasonable for a scene production to detect the REU and fully utilise the capacity and ignore any existing data and trash contents? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
is it reasonable from a user who runs a reu demo to expect it not to not to destroy the contents ? |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
I am thinking more along the lines of a production being able to detect and utilise extra functionality and not be REU specific. For example IDE64, REU, C128 for 2 MHz mode, SCPU etc. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
imho
for a (c64) demo it doesnt make sense to work within changing HW limitations, because it is very much shaped by those limitations.
you'd need to write different demos for different hw. or work with the baddest HW limitations as smallest common denominator and imitate that behaviour with better HW.
fex loading speed affects music synch, now on IDE you will either have 2 different music, or just wait with IDE as long as the loading is with a floppy.
etc. |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
You missed the point. Have you ever made use of 2 MHz mode of a C128 for a littl extra betterness?
Maybe I have ideas for demos, tools or a diskmag. For example the diskmag I had some involvement with supported some 2 MHz support, some SCPU support (software switching down to 1 MHz where it is needed), 1541, 1581, FD2000 IRQ loader. No idea what else I added - it was over a decade ago.
One use I can think of is messing around with samples in a C64 music editor. RAM is limited, floppy is slow. Nice to expand the work area, modify some samples etc. and at the end when needed I can dispose of unused samples in the final tune. I have lots of work patterns and crap in stuff when I make tunes that only get removed at the end.
I'm trying to get feedback from REU users. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Rather you have problem at articulating your question. So we play this: I try to find out what you want to ask, and you keep telling me I miss the point.
so what do you want to know? would REU users like the REU to be used ? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
first... 128k REU is extremely uncommon IMHO (i have never seen one in anyones collection so far...). you'll find a lot more 256k or 512k REUs "in the wild".
second... using extra hardware in demos, oh well. basically what oswald said. most things are out of the question, except simple stuff like using 2mhz mode or perhaps using REU for buffering disk access. then again your demo better runs properly on stock system anyway, so most of that stuff doesnt make a lot of sense either.
(sample editor on the c64... in 2015? my condolences =P) |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
Think more along the lines of a typical music editor except using samples so it's useful to have more work space so you don't need to prematurely remove samples from memory.
Oswald: The initial question is general because I have nothing in particular in mind. It's about trashing the contents of REU without asking the user if I find a use for it. My diskmag example is using it for a cache of loaded tunes. After reading Dawn, it could be used for a modded outfit that can also cache the extra fonts that are potentially supported. This is all more about the idea and acceptability of overwriting REU contents. |
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ThunderBlade
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 77 |
I owned a REU in the 90s and did a simple digi demo, Life will never be the same Digidemo 286K, and I didn't ask if it was ok to overwrite the REU contents, I just did it. No one ever complained - either because very few ppl had a REU back then, or, because they were just fine. :)
Seriously, the one scenario I can think of where I would not like my REU contents to be overwritten is when using the 1764 version of Turbo Assembler on C64. But on the other hand, I would expect any program using the REU to overwrite its content without asking, so I would save my source code before launching it.
As for REU users today, my gut feeling is that due to 1541 Ultimate and Chameleon, there is a broad(er) user base for REU stuff than a few years back. Basically REU is the better SuperCPU - cheap, easier to program, widely available as real hardware as well as in emulators. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting StryykerIt's about trashing the contents of REU without asking the user if I find a use for it.
Why not just ask...?
"REU detected - loading data will destroy contents, do you want to continue? (Y/N)" |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I will sue you if your prg destroys my REU contents!! :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: Quoting StryykerIt's about trashing the contents of REU without asking the user if I find a use for it.
Why not just ask...?
"REU detected - loading data will destroy contents, do you want to continue? (Y/N)"
yeah, just aswell could say:
"64k RAM detected - loading data will destroy contents, do you want to continue? (Y/N)" |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
also do the same before overwriting RAM under kernal please. you never know.... |
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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 504 |
Demoes either run on vanilla hardware or gtfo |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
1541u2, is that vanilla or pistachio? :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
nice trolling, however running demo on a 1541u doesnt mean it shouldnt be able to run on 1541 :) |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Reu or supercpu demos would destroy the c64 scene.
Let's not make it similar to the other fragmented machines :-) |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 945 |
Since we're doing these productions out of boredom, why not? If it goes noticed by the ones using the extra hw, maybe you'd get some bonus kudos. But most won't notice the extra features anyway, only you coding it. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 727 |
First.. to answer the question: If <user> runs your demo, you pwn all RAM that is physically connected. If <user> has its RAM-disk anywhere there, it should always be shredded. That's just common sense.
Rambling:.. Some demos even manipulate or even delete them selves from disk, and if that is part of the demo-experience, fine with me :). I think a demo may claim to own its demo-disk, but that question gets tougher if the disk is not limited to those 664 + BAM blocks of a standard 5'25-disk.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
now make your demo flash itself to 1541U flash permanently =) |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
I'm not aware I said I am making anything for the above hardware and not working on a plain system. Don't read more than what is said. It's more of an enhanced experience if it is available and I eventually provided an example where it is the case. |
