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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
Scene DVD
I have started to create a scene dvd, what i am hoping to do is create a dvd full of c64 scene release (demos, magazine, tools) where each release is a d64 image so that you can run them straight from the dvd.
to do this, i will need some help, not just in collection all the releases, but in converting them into d64 images.
what would you recommend for converting p00 and the other file formats into d64 images (PC please).
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Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Sounds a bit like Darren's old project(s) although he did it on a regular CD-Rom, but still a good idea!!! |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
It's indeed a good idea but better check with the guys of http://www.demodvd.org/ because after Mindcandy vol1. (PC demo's) and vol.2 (Amiga demo's), I heard they are going to do a C=64 demo dvd.
On the other hand, you could start your own project.
1 copy is already sold ;-)
R. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3186 |
Case: StarCommander http://sta.c64.org/sc.html
and 64copy http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~schepers/personal.html
are both valid programs for converting c64 files. |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
The MindCandy project is a dvd with video clips of the demos on, what i'm hoping to do is have the actual demos in d64 format so you can run them using your favorite emulator.
The hardest part will be compiling a list of all the demos by each group. Some will be easy (crest, cosine, smash-designs, booze designs), but some older ones like (spench, riffs) mights be alittle harder.
In the end i might setup a ftp server for people to upload missing demos and in exchange, they will get a copy of the dvd either for free or with a very good discount. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Let's work together.
I talked to one in the #C-64 char, who promised to send a mail, he has not remembered. Will se him again..
Well, some are swapping stuff to get more and more.
What I suggest, is to make a mailing list, and then join collectors and wize people in it. Like we have done with HVSC.
Then, first point of order, is to AGREE with what method we will work forward to making complete as possible collection.
When project grows, we try and get more people to join the team.
?
Let me know what you think.
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Metal Maniac
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 12 |
I like the idea, many have started and many of us have our own collections.
There are already FTP servers with demo collections on, but ofcourse setting up a server would be good if you do, to make it easy for us to share our collections.
I have about 500Mb zipped D64s with demos, ~200Mb already sorted in folders by groupname. I have no releasedates or anything, but often the zip file are named like the demo ;)
http://www.c64.ch/
and
http://www.c64hq.com/
are good sources for demos aswell (and again, don't forget the FTP servers already existing, like Paduas and Ons...).
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
I you want to participate, write to jan.harries@get2net.dk
We will set up a mailing list asap. |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
I think you have just the correct thinking, the HVSC started small, and i really believe we can do the same.
I think you should setup a mailing list and we can get maybe 10 people to start with ?, not to many. each person could take a single letter and work on all demos by that group ?, eg.
If i were to do C, then i would look for all demos by crest, cosine, cosmos etc. I dont think we need useless info for each release, maybe just a text file containging all the demos we have for that group so that anyone who gets a copy and finds that we have missed a demo off the release can let us know.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
We now have 4 on the team :-) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Count me in (at least for the talking about stage, I got some pretty strong ideas of my own) |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
thats cool, so all we have to do now is thnk of a name for the project.....
C64 Demo Collection (C.D.C) ?
any ideas ?
we could do with some kind of "private" board for this. so we can keep a track of the updates etc. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
I'm compiling a collection of DVDs for the winner of the X2004 demo competition. These DVDs will contain C64 wares, no FTP collections, but pure rare stuff and other people's collections.
So far I have 19GB of stuff, PACKED.
Some of it will be unsorted unfortunately as I have no time for that.
Case: waiting on your reply.
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
'demobase' is good enough, use of the frontend of gamebase should be easy as well, i never tried that but it was always my goal to someday fill a database which that gamebase frontend can use, perhaps with some little changes to he frontend itself, so it fits demos more that games |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: thats cool, so all we have to do now is thnk of a name for the project.....
C64 Demo Collection (C.D.C) ?
any ideas ?
we could do with some kind of "private" board for this. so we can keep a track of the updates etc.
Case, please read the mail you have gotten! :-)
The Dark Judge: please send a mail so we can get your address!
Jazzcat: 19GB ?
U just mad... I don't believe u...
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Rambones: hahah, I'm mad, but believe me anyway :)
The collection is a lotta stuff not on the net and stuff like the collections of Bod, Code18, Hornet and many other people. If your at X2004 I can show you :) A pity "all" of it is not sorted, but over half of it is. Too big a task for my time-window.
Will send it all to Case for the site anyway.
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
Excellent, this is starting to take shape now.
for the website name thing, i think www.C64demos.org would be best.
for the releases i think we should have one dir for the "A" groups, one for "B" etc, and then each group should have its down directory. I like the nameing scheme as you said it is nice to watch history in the making and see how a group grows over the years. so "/Crest/19961007_We_Rule.D64" is cool.
Will we be having only D64 images ?, no prg or lnx files. maybe some T64 ? |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
Wouldnt it be better to have like big groups as Crest, Blackmail, Horizon in the root and then a various with the rest? :)
Since, Im a collector myself (however just swedish productions) I'd like to participate, though, my time is right now limited. I think this is a good idea that I hope will be kept alive.
There is one problem with the "/Crest/19961007_We_Rule.D64" notation and that is when you have no clue which year the demo was released. No dates, no hints in scrollers etc. Would that be "/Crest/19YYMMDD_We_Rule.D64" then?
and my vote goes to d64 only. |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
I would prefer d64 images aswell.
as for the date, we could always have a text file/excell/spreadsheet for each group listing all the demos and (if known) release dates etc, but that will make alot of work for some everyone, it will also take away valuable space from the purpose of the collection.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: Wouldnt it be better to have like big groups as Crest, Blackmail, Horizon in the root and then a various with the rest? :)
Since, Im a collector myself (however just swedish productions) I'd like to participate, though, my time is right now limited. I think this is a good idea that I hope will be kept alive.
There is one problem with the "/Crest/19961007_We_Rule.D64" notation and that is when you have no clue which year the demo was released. No dates, no hints in scrollers etc. Would that be "/Crest/19YYMMDD_We_Rule.D64" then?
and my vote goes to d64 only.
I suggested the same as Case writes, and about unknown dates, we just have to decide what to do.
19YYMD..... seems good.
The purpose is to make chronology where possible,
and also it then is very valuable for a fast database creation.
I think D64 is the best, because of filenames, I want them as they originally are. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
This seems good. I also agree with D64 only. This site should include everything except for MAGS and CRACKS.
Seems things are quite well good.
One day Mason will launch his CRACKS site, and there already exists http://mags.c64.org
So a good representation of our scene.
Preservation is the key. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
I use the next naming convention for demos:
group - date - demoname.d64, with one demo per image.
So for example:
camelot - 2004.01.19 - you know the routine.d64
if a date is not completely known, part of it can be left out.
Example:
orion - 1988.04.xx - run for cover.d64
sphinx - 198x.xx.xx - cybersphinx.d64
This way I always get a nice chronologically sorted dir. Demos sorted per group, but I make a distinction between the quality of releases as well (so Horizon & Crest are in a different category than, say, WWE). Also, if a demo is a coop between max 4 groups, the file will be present several times.
Ofcourse this is based on my own personal preferences, for this project I would leave out that seperation, just dirs o-9, a, b, c etcetera. As for what it should contain, I would say just (real) demos, maybe music & graphic collections would qualify just as long as they're more than a bunch of tunes/pictures on a disk together without a menu or sth. Please please please leave out the rest, I don't want to waste my time on notes, logos, tunes and pictures, I want to waste it on demos only :) |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
I'm also very found of the "group-demoname.d64" notation. Since it makes it much easier when you want to compile stuff and send to others plus the trackability is alot easier then just having tons of images called "demo2.d64". |
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
send to others can not be realised over the filename, since we have to think of updates, how would one know which is the updated files?
file-regognition should be realised over some checksum or hash value!
clearmamepro is a good solution for having the same filebase on everyones hdd, people can create files of demos they miss, and others can fulfill their wishes through this program, all with just a few mouse clicks ...
and we can hand out different style databases for clearmame so all different needs concerning the naming of the files can be fulfilled:
Demoname (Date)(Groupname).d64
Date Demoname.d64
and so on ... |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Well, you have the datestamp on the file, but this can sometimes be cleared or get false.
If you don't want a collection datestamp on the filename, what about using the ID on the D64 ?
There's 5 chars.. can write 2004C for december 2004
Fullyear+month as hex. ?
There's no room for year+week, if you want full year,
but 8633 could mean 1986 week 33.
I just dont like 0433.
?
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
the id on the d64? i dont want to create new files!
a hash value clearly identifies an image
why not use already proven systems?
what if an image gets renamed? do you want to exchange it everytime the name gets changed? why not use some existing system which can easily apply such changes to ones filebase using small update files?!??
the way should be finding a d64.file, calculate the hash value, then store all information in a database using the hash value as id
i will write some text about a way handling updates would be pretty easy and post it on the list if wanted |
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Earthshaker
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 118 |
Wreg is right! I also use Clearmame pro to sort my collection. It's a very fast way to rename your collection and to spot the double entries.
@wreg: I still have to send the dvd, it will come, don't worry. ;) |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
we could talk forever about how we could do something, how about we move forward and decide on somethings.
1. directory structure
A,B,C,D etc. groups like 20cc,711,2000ad will be in a folder called 0. maybe a # directory for things like "demo of the year". "the singles collection" and links from each individual group pointing there.
2. each group to have its own sub-folder.
3. file nameing. files to be named as follows:
year-month-date_demoname.d64
1991-xx-xx_paranoid.d64 (the 'xx' represents asyet unknown data).
4. use the clrmamepro program to help find doubles etc.
its time to stop talking and start on the long journey to build something worthwhile and that will last for years to come.
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
wreg: I was generally speaking about the rare occasion when someone here asks for a forgotten release. But a working and stable update system is very important too.
rambones: using the d64's ID is not 100% safe. There are demos that change that. Like Crest's Avantgarde.
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
[case] we could talk forever about how we could do something, how about we move forward and decide on somethings.
think before you move young shaolin, if you dont plan things now as best as you can, you might get lost on your way!
one or two weeks wont hurt anyone ;)
your first three point are irrelevant for now.
we better speak about how to store which information where (a nice database?)
all wanted filestructures can be created from the database using clearmamepro and some batchfiles ... |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Jeps, well.. I guess we pretty much know what we want, and different ideas have been said.
wreg and Case have replied to mails, the others have not.
Yesterday, I didn't get any mail, something was wrong somewhere.
About disks, yes, use hash'es - I don't know how it works, but I trust you do, so.
About filename, I think we agree to /group/releasename_diskside(A-Z)_date.D64
Now, let's find out where to store uploads, then we can begin to rough-sort.
How much bandwidth do we need for 5 uploaders ?
It's not like you pump all day, every day.. or ?
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Well, from my side, I will be sending around 6 DVDs to Case, unfortunately, other than that, my committments will be minimal, due to other work and my Mag Archive. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Jeps, well.. I guess we pretty much know what we want, and different ideas have been said.
wreg and Case have replied to mails, the others have not.
Yesterday, I didn't get any mail, something was wrong somewhere.
About disks, yes, use hash'es - I don't know how it works, but I trust you do, so.
About filename, I think we agree to /group/releasename_diskside(A-Z)_date.D64
Now, let's find out where to store uploads, then we can begin to rough-sort.
How much bandwidth do we need for 5 uploaders ?
It's not like you pump all day, every day.. or ?
1. I did send you an email so you would know my addy, after that I heard nothing, so maybe something went wrong.
2. I don't think we agree on the naming convention, however I understand that clearmame pro makes it possible for everybody to use their own? Is automatic conversion possible?
3. I still haven't heard about *what* and *how* we are going to collect.
I'm already working on 2 collections myself (one that will function as the backbone for my 'The Dark Court' website, one with dutch demos), and I'm afraid things might become a bit too much work if I would also have to set up a third. Has anybody thought about the role of a supplier next to that of contributor? I would be more than happy to share my stuff, ofcourse I would expect something back as well, so I can build on my own collections. |
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
tdj,
2. yeah no problem, that dat-file can easily be altered, so we all rename into one format, but later we provide different styled dat.files so ppl can choose whatever they want :)
automatic is possible, go get someone who will code a little tool, could be integrated in some frontend if he has the time
if noone will be found, ill write some crap-script and supply the converted dat-files ... later
3. we are working on it ... eta: end of the week
you wont have to set up a third, you can contribute, and of course get files out of there for your own purposes.
Have you already thought about sharing your stuff without wanting something in return?? ;) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: tdj,
2. yeah no problem, that dat-file can easily be altered, so we all rename into one format, but later we provide different styled dat.files so ppl can choose whatever they want :)
automatic is possible, go get someone who will code a little tool, could be integrated in some frontend if he has the time
if noone will be found, ill write some crap-script and supply the converted dat-files ... later
3. we are working on it ... eta: end of the week
you wont have to set up a third, you can contribute, and of course get files out of there for your own purposes.
Have you already thought about sharing your stuff without wanting something in return?? ;)
ok, i'll wait until the end of the week.
And as for that last point: sure I could do that. I could also give you money without wanting anything in return. But let's be realistic here: we all want our private collections to be as complete as possible, so I want something in return.
Hey, it's almost like the good old days of swapping :) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
In old days, 20 elites and 180 lamers was good to swap stuff.
Imagine how little a democollection you would have today: without the lamers!
Lamers rule!
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: In old days, 20 elites and 180 lamers was good to swap stuff.
Imagine how little a democollection you would have today: without the lamers!
Lamers rule!
I do, don't I? |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
well...eh.. |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
I think we may have overlooked one small, but inportant thing. where are are going to store the files, as Jazzcat pointed out he is posting me 6 DVD's of files, thats around 20gigs of data, add to that all of our own collections and we will be talking about quite a sizable chunk.
I have a dell server sitting in my spare room which i should be able to connect to the net, i also have 2x60gig, 1x160gig, 1xDVD writer & 1xCD-RW writer sitting doing nothing so i think that might be the way forward.
currently i'm on a 768mg connection, but if i pay £10 more each month, i can get a 2mg one. I think that its justified in that matter. The only drawback is that the server has linux installed and i've only scratched the serface of this os, although i do know that it can be configured remotely.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
wreg wrote me he wants to store files, i don't know how much space it is..
I have 250 GB fundrive.
If needed, we can split something up in 2 places, and try and find a gigaserver sometimes later.. ?
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
all further could be discussed in private ... |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: all further could be discussed in private ...
does that mean that we're gonna discuss private (demo) parts? Cool!
Seriously though, is my addy known by now? Just to be sure, it's tdj@lyrical.demon.nl |
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Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
20Gb of scene demo's only??
That is about 120525 disc D64 files? Is that a realistic figure or is it just the unsorted non de-double'd raw material??
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
i think that xxgb includes games and stuff also ...
and yes many doubles, though if all goes well, we will sort out the good stuff only
in the end you will have a nice collection including each demo only once ;)
nevertheless we need much help sorting the stuff !!
we'll see how fast we can give you first results :)) |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: 20Gb of scene demo's only??
That is about 120525 disc D64 files? Is that a realistic figure or is it just the unsorted non de-double'd raw material??
Yep, pretty much what Wreg said. There is doubles. There is demos, cracks, EVERYTHING that is C64. Including scans of paper art. C64 songs converted to mp3, interviews with famous sceners in mpeg etc etc etc. the bulk of this 26.3 or so GB of stuff is C64 d64 images, zipped.
Will send a copy to Case for the archive (preservation!).
The winner of X2004 Demo Competition also receives this as a gift from me (seeing as customs won't let me bring other presents that I would like to ;)) |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
I have just looked back at my original post and noticed i had propsed to include magazine & tools. I don't in all honesty think this will be worthwhile. JAZZCAT has done the most amazing job with the mags so i dont want to take anything away from him on that.
Tools, well i for one would prefer to use the space for demos only, unless there is an exception (eg. krestology tools etc)
and finally, this is slightly off-topic (by a small mile) what distro of linux would anyone recommend for the server, i'm willing to wipe the entire thing and there's no way in hell i will install a windows server unless its a total and utter absolute final utter last option. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
So, Case, wreg - at the moment I'm waiting for a server being set up ?
I'm copying disks at the moment..
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
My pc has crashed, can anyone who has emailed me, please do so again.
Will I never learn about backing up email's & stuff. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Should get a Yahoo! account ;) |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Yeah, use yahoo or such, the PO Box of email.
My C64 crashed, so I turned it off, then on again.
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
Yeah, I've also just lost a 130gig partition from the system, although my partition manager can still "SEE" it, windows cannot.
anyway, enough about that ... i have added a page to my website
www.case64.co.uk look for the demobaset64 link.
Anyone who can & will definately help, can you please email me and i'll put your names onto the page (with email address & web-links ?). |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Case:
Still looking for your sending of DVDs. Will award winner of X2004 demo compo my first version of collection of collections DVD package. Only 18 days away!
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
JC:
Its a shame your not coming to the UK, we could have met up somewhere. |
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Tristan
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 52 |
Quote: Case:
Still looking for your sending of DVDs. Will award winner of X2004 demo compo my first version of collection of collections DVD package. Only 18 days away!
Boot Knoppix or another live linux cd and dump the files off the hd.
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Tristan
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 52 |
Quote: Yeah, I've also just lost a 130gig partition from the system, although my partition manager can still "SEE" it, windows cannot.
anyway, enough about that ... i have added a page to my website
www.case64.co.uk look for the demobaset64 link.
Anyone who can & will definately help, can you please email me and i'll put your names onto the page (with email address & web-links ?).
ooops... I quoted Jazz. Didnt want to do that.
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
i have setup a private forum for anyone wanting to help with the project.
link:
http://www.phpbbforfree.com/forums/index.php?mforum=demobase64&..
lets get the project started. |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 476 |
will that dvd be published freely, i.e. in shape of a rom-image, or does one have to order it? |
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Case
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 142 |
freely published. |
