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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Spectrum vs C64 ;-)
Just for fun...
http://www.wayoftherodent.com/guests/bob_c64.htm
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-= Silicon Ltd. =-
http://www.deco-design.com/scl |
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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 621 |
There also had been a poll on a forum, which was between the C64 and Spectrum. C64 has won :)
I have to agree, regarding the graphics side and sounds side. The C64 has more powerful graphics and sound, compared to the spectrum. I don't like the sounds much on the spectrum and the speccy music to my ears is *terrible*. :P
It does not mean that I have anything against the Spectrum computer. I never owned one, but I did have a go with some of the games on the Spectrum emulator. Wasn't all that impressed TBH (Graphics wise). |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
I love Speccy! ;-) |
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
This great unbiased journalistic masterpiece is also funny:
http://www.gamestage.net/english/test.html
It looks like the speccy is far superior to the C64 after all. :( Judge for yourself. |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: There also had been a poll on a forum, which was between the C64 and Spectrum. C64 has won :)
I have to agree, regarding the graphics side and sounds side. The C64 has more powerful graphics and sound, compared to the spectrum. I don't like the sounds much on the spectrum and the speccy music to my ears is *terrible*. :P
It does not mean that I have anything against the Spectrum computer. I never owned one, but I did have a go with some of the games on the Spectrum emulator. Wasn't all that impressed TBH (Graphics wise).
<obscure oz scene pun>
I'm pretty sure TBH never used a speccy.
</obscure oz scene pun> |
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deizi
Account closed
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 95 |
/me kicks all speccy lovers outta here!11 |
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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 621 |
Quote: /me kicks all speccy lovers outta here!11
Yeah! Lets keep it C64 ;) |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
let's go to a speccy IRC channel and talk with spectrum people about C64 - you'll laugh and have argue for sure ;-)
notabene thay're claiming that speccy is better than c64 nah :P and even it was sold in more units that c64 but they don't undestand how was it counted :P |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 899 |
you mean speccy ppl are too dumb to count? :) That's common knowledge :) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
And they don't understand why 320x200 is a higher resolution than 256x192 :) "C64 has blocky graphics" hehe |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 899 |
i'd say our beloved c64 has 368x282 reso, but what the heck :) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Nah, 402*286.5 :) |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
I don`t have a clue what you are talking about wvl&graham, my c64 runs on grolsch with 1280x1024 ;-D and it is very true that it even has colours...
maybe stylish speccy-green and speccy-yellow are in that toilet eh palette, too any the cool sprite god knows
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Those heretics using Speccys do not believe in the sprite god. |
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V-12
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206 |
But we believe in LDA STA! |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
LoDA |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
someday my friend brang me a zx81 he "borrowed" from school in Katowice... even my calculator for E1 has got better keyboard :D but, that speccy was extended to 64k instead of 2k if I remeber right... it might me 48k or 16k or something... anyway... 1541 is better computer than this piece of shit ;-)
I even had an polish speccy clone , called ELRWO 800 JUNIOR-2 but I fortunately got it broken so I was unable to use it... look here: http://www.allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=59153902
and here is one I've had... http://www.ryomanhattan.addr.com/raf/elwro/ (sold it for around E18 :P) |
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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 621 |
C64 tapes loaded a whole lot faster compared to speccy. We had Novaload, Cyberload, Invade A Load (When has a speccy ever had a game to play while loading a game - none), Freeload, Ocean Loader and that timer load, Commodore Format used for their cover tapes since issue 12 :)
Plus we can see C64 grapics nicely compared to speccy. Oh, and the demo scene on the C64 really kicked ass ;) |
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Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 461 |
The loader with the time counter which Commodore Format is ofcourse called Rasterload. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
AFAIK speccy tape was way faster then c64's. Anyway speccy vs c64 war is always started by speccie fans, and for what reason ? coz they cant stand that our machine is better. The same reason why amiga ppl hate pcs, and so on.
On one of the links above they even managed to explain that sid is a piece of crap compared to their wonderful 1 bit noise shit. After that I believe they can prove anything. |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Quote: AFAIK speccy tape was way faster then c64's. Anyway speccy vs c64 war is always started by speccie fans, and for what reason ? coz they cant stand that our machine is better. The same reason why amiga ppl hate pcs, and so on.
On one of the links above they even managed to explain that sid is a piece of crap compared to their wonderful 1 bit noise shit. After that I believe they can prove anything.
"The same reason why amiga ppl hate pcs" - are you sure PCs are better than way extended amigas? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
raf: is that really still a question ? |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
well... that's all still realative ;-) p4 seems better than a500 ;-) but stock a1200 seems better than 386 , yeah? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Bah, who cares which game versions are better. It's all about the demos you know!
What do you say? You say that's stupid because there are no demos with both a c64 and a spectrum version? How wrong you are ..
http://www.pouet.net/search.php?what=timewaster&type=prod&x=20&..
C64 wins. WOO! :)
(please forgive me, but we were supposed to release our new demo this weekend - unfortunately we're still as lazy as ever, so there's nothing better to do than to refer to better days)
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deizi
Account closed
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 95 |
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=C64&word2..
C64 Wins!!1 |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
@Deizi: be more accurate (commodore 64 vs zx spectrum:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=commodore.. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
As if there could be any doubt..
C64 ruled in the 1980´s/1990´s and for me,it will rule untill the 2080´s/2090´s. ;)
Anybody claiming that another 8-Bitter has better sounds,must be submitted to a mental institution. 8P |
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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 621 |
Quote: As if there could be any doubt..
C64 ruled in the 1980´s/1990´s and for me,it will rule untill the 2080´s/2090´s. ;)
Anybody claiming that another 8-Bitter has better sounds,must be submitted to a mental institution. 8P
A little harsh there ;) But yeah ;P |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
>http://www.gamestage.net/english/test.html
Most speccy games got surprisingly higher rating in graphics than the CPC versions which I definitelly like more. Oh well, must be the blocky pixels those Specians don't like ;P |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
i think the zx spectrum is an underrated machine.
in the past it was a great machine and there are still loads of
plastic and rubber fake-spectrums ;-)
the music that ppl still make on zx spectrum still kixx. sometimes even better than sid.
google for ay-riders and check their mp3's. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
I don't think Speccy is underrated, I think it is constantly overrated. The gameplay of Speccy games is NOT better by default, and the demos are NOT great because they show the same movelist effects the 1000000th time. Also, is the 1986 Amstrad +2 or +3 really a Spectrum? Then you could also say that C128 demos are C64 demos since the C128 is the 1985 version of the C64. |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
AY-Riders is just phnomen. most of speccy's music is just lame , but not as lame as atari xl/xe music ;-)
I've met Factor6 and second guy from that group , I forgot his nick . I was talking with F6 and I said that his music is really great and so on ... he replied that he knows that , he is the best and zx people stopped participating competitions because he always wins ;-)
anyway... zx's graphics are maybe good in fake 256 colour mode - modern speccys have got a special mode where two 16 colour bitmaps are crossfaded - that looks rather nice. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
I wouldn't call Interlace "Crossfading"... Anyway, it's not 256 colors but 136 colors because the mirrors of color mixing result in the same color. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
some speccy demos are clearly better technically than c64 ones, speccy can do texture mapping (env phong) way faster then the 6510... |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
I don't see why Speccy DEMOS are technically better if stuff runs 2x speed due to 2x faster cpu :)
Anyway, I still argue that 128K Speccys should be compared to C128 and not C64... C128 is much more compatible to the original C64 than a Amstrad +2/+3 is compared to the original 48K Spectrum. |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Quote: I wouldn't call Interlace "Crossfading"... Anyway, it's not 256 colors but 136 colors because the mirrors of color mixing result in the same color.
well... a screenshot I saw was clearly looking like two pictures blended |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
"I don't see why Speccy DEMOS are technically better if stuff runs 2x speed due to 2x faster cpu :)"
That's an easy one, it's dealing with 3x the screen RAM. =-) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
LOL yes ofcourse :D Did you expect a screenshot to show the lacing? How should that be done? |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
"That's an easy one, it's dealing with 3x the screen RAM. =-)"
But it's not dealing with 3x the calculations for texture mapping because also them Speccy coders use 4x4 modes :D |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Graham: their 4x4 mode is totally done by cpu (drawing up the whole bitmap by hand to look like 4x4) but you know that yourself.
So even with doing 4x4 by hand their texture mapping is superior. The topic is about c64 hardware vs spectrum hardware not about coding knowledge. so the comparison is fair. Even if I havent expressed myself absolutely correctly. |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Quote: LOL yes ofcourse :D Did you expect a screenshot to show the lacing? How should that be done?
hmm... good argument ;-) I'll sit silent about this until I'll see such a piccy live or under emulator :) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Oswald: Yes sure, but on the more time consuming effects most of the time is spent on the effect itself and not the 4x4 mode. Look at the gouraud in Oneder. 95% of the time is spent on the edge calculations, the gouraud filling itself is lightning fast. Also, very often the Speccy coders use a simple trick to reduce the size of the frame buffer: They don't render every rasterline, but every 2nd or even every 4th. With a shifting offset this adds some kind of motion blur to the effect. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
@Raf: Yep, but the same is true for screenshots of C64 interlace pictures (IFLI or MCI), in reality many of them don't look half as good as on screenshot. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Just a slightly related note: Proper displaying of interlaced pictures could of course be done using GIF animation. ;-) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
"proper" = 50 fps on a 50 fps screenmode. I doubt that GIF animations can do that. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: "proper" = 50 fps on a 50 fps screenmode. I doubt that GIF animations can do that.
True, you'd have to settle for 50 fps @ whatever screenmode. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Nopes, 50 fps on a 60 Hz screenmode looks like shit.
Sometimes a frame will be displayed double:
121211212122121211212122
instead of:
121212121212121212121212 |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Why not just grab first frame & second frame using emulator and then to mix the two using a program such as photoshop |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: Nopes, 50 fps on a 60 Hz screenmode looks like shit.
Sometimes a frame will be displayed double:
121211212122121211212122
instead of:
121212121212121212121212
Yeah, I know, and it's a major problem when running emulators. I really wasn't that serious, as indicated by the smiley... But still, would it look worse than in, say, VICE? |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
What have I done?!
Krill & Graham are discussing Z80 assembler on #c64 now...
I never post a Speccy topic again! ;-)
R.
---
-= Silicon Ltd. =-
http://www.deco-design.com/scl |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quote: Why not just grab first frame & second frame using emulator and then to mix the two using a program such as photoshop
Yes exactly, and that is done already. I was pointing out that the blending was done by PC tools and not the Spectrum (or C64) itself. I replied to:
"well... a screenshot I saw was clearly looking like two pictures blended" (Raf) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
I must point out that interlace is not blending... The fields has to be separated by half a pixel if it's supposed to be true interlace. Doing it properly in for instance PhotoShop I think can give results similar to reality, but just blend then is plain wrong and will ofcourse look like 'two pictures blended'. |
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Mihai
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 29 |
judging by the demos only the atari xl/xe gets the commie nervous ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
atari kills the scene |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Will you please take your pills now, Oswald! ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
pills kills the scene ;) ok I'll cut it :) |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 462 |
"AY-Riders is just phnomen. most of speccy's music is just lame "
ay-riders is not a phenomenon, dude. for good speccy music, you'll have to turn your ear to the east and listen carefully. belarus, ukraine, russia, many cool tunes are to be found there.
yet even the technically best ay tune succumbs to moderately well programmed sidmusic. you can arrange and instrumentate the tune in many different ways on c64. on speccy, it's always more or less the same sound. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: "AY-Riders is just phnomen. most of speccy's music is just lame "
ay-riders is not a phenomenon, dude. for good speccy music, you'll have to turn your ear to the east and listen carefully. belarus, ukraine, russia, many cool tunes are to be found there.
yet even the technically best ay tune succumbs to moderately well programmed sidmusic. you can arrange and instrumentate the tune in many different ways on c64. on speccy, it's always more or less the same sound.
Gasman (UK) has excellent musics and it doesn't matter (that much) whether the sounds is the same, if the music roxxors ;-) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Hmm is AY music really Speccy music? The original Spectrum computers didn't have this soundchip, and it is also not unique to the later Spectrum models since also Amstrad CPC and Atari ST computers have it. |
