| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Dim cold calculation?!?!?!
Okay.. I have to say something about the thing which really bugs me now. It's a sentence taken from review of Singles Collection. Here we go: "a dim, coldly calculated concept made for the due of things. Sadly enough all too recent as demands for not letting the stream dry up completely".
Dear critic.. Please don't tell us that you know what we feel when we compose, draw and code. Are you really so desperately incompetent that you really believe that people like TMR, Hollowman and others who participated in the project produce things because they desperately want the stream (another stupid catch word from that cathegory where retro & oldskool belongs) to continue?? Oh man, wake up.. nobody needs to do anything. If those people didn't enjoy what they did, they would never do anything. Please don't tell us that creative people do things because they want to keep c64 alive. I don't think anybody who participated on production of the collection did that with this purpose, only you are so incompetent that you dare to present daemagogy as fact. My god, dude those words you said are naiver than any retro bafflegab I've ever read on lemon64.com forums or comp.sys.cbm. And this from person who is actively participating in the C64 scene. Please go spread your incompetent and daemagogical definition of scene productivity somewhere else than in the most prestigious magazine ever produced.
Ah.. by the way.. according to your definition Vandalism News is a cold calcualtion too.. just to keep scene alive? Yeah?. If you believe in your own words, you already consider scene dead. Scene(rs) doesn't think and analyse things just for the sake of thinking and analysing things like you do.. Sorry but scene(r) is not so simple like you try to present to us. If there is just one person who understands the scene(rs), please stand up and say. Yeah, that's me. .... silence... have a nice dream dude. |
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| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
So just as I said on the c64.sk forum :), I have stopped reading or just fastly run over the VN demo reviews since Joe (or Ed, whatever, I don't really care) is editing them. Too "elitish" and "arty-farty" for my taste. I prefer and appreciate the TDJ-kind of reviews: smart, strong but fair.
And yes I know theyre putting lot of effort in writing those articles, I really appreciate their very hard work, but I dont like the way they review demos. But its only my humble opinion. And I am a simple-minded alcoholic anyway :)
I just don't like when someone is so conceited, that's all. Btw, I've never seen CreamD so much fucked up, he's about to kill someone, I say ;)) |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Yeah my flaming engines are really started up. I just want to tell that anonymous critic that he is aiming his irresponsibly chosen indirect accusations at the wrong targets. |
| | Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
Anonymous? That was a good one. :-) |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: Anonymous? That was a good one. :-)
Yes, anonymous. ;-) |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Hairsplitting, but true, the critic is really anonymous. :/ |
| | CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
Eeh... That comment you all talk about... i don't see it.. where is it?
Btw, if he thinks this kind of thing sucks, isn't he allowed to have that oppinion? (ofcause i haven't read his comment, so i don't know if he is flaming like crazy... has he deleted it again?) |
| | Celtic
Administrator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807 |
Its prolly about the vandalism news review.... :) |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Vandalism News #39, Demo Reviews part 2.
And although noone is credited for the article, I'm quite sure it was written by Joe/Wrath Designs. He's not flaming like hell, more like stating his opinion, and he is ofcourse allowed to do that, till now, noone said the opposite as far as I know.
Hm.
Anyhow, at the moment my very wise opinon is not to have an opinion on anyone's opinion about the opinion in VN#39, or just in Joe's opinion in general. Because it will raise up more opinions, and finally we will be flooded by them, and that's a no-no in my opinion. ;))
And I anyway don't care too much, I just love to post. :) |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: Vandalism News #39, Demo Reviews part 2.
And although noone is credited for the article, I'm quite sure it was written by Joe/Wrath Designs. He's not flaming like hell, more like stating his opinion, and he is ofcourse allowed to do that, till now, noone said the opposite as far as I know.
Hm.
Anyhow, at the moment my very wise opinon is not to have an opinion on anyone's opinion about the opinion in VN#39, or just in Joe's opinion in general. Because it will raise up more opinions, and finally we will be flooded by them, and that's a no-no in my opinion. ;))
And I anyway don't care too much, I just love to post. :)
I don't like pretentious opinions which are based on untrue presumptions. And if Joe thinks he is at least slightly right he is blind and incompetent. DOT |
| | Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
Nevertheless, there are some aspects you forget. Such as articles written by Wrath Designs are written most of the time by more than one man. So in attacking one member, you are ofcourse facing the whole group. Well, better watch your words then and try to realize only why the article was written in the first place. |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Dear mister, first of all, as far as I know, the (uncredited) article was published in a magazine called "Vandalism News", which is not a "Wrath"-only product... Do we have to cope with Onslaught members too?
"So in attacking one member, you are ofcourse facing the whole group"
That's a low, demagogic statement... Was the article written by the whole group, several members or one person? The article is not credited to anyone. Yes, and I absolutely hate the article and the opinion stated in it. From now on, do I have to hate Oxidy or Blackdroid as well?
"Well, better watch your words then and try to realize only why the article was written in the first place."
As I see, the article was written to express opinions (the whole group's, Joe's, Ed's... doesn't matters) in a C64 scene-media. If the opinion doesn't reflects the truth, read: "based on untrue presumptions", isn't that so pretty logical that one has the right to disagree. Read carefully, I qute the article: "(Singles Collection is) ...a dim, coldly calculated concept made for the due of things. Sadly enough all too recent as demands for not letting the stream dry up completely". I am pretty sure that the writer(s) of the articles never asked TMR and the others about their intentions while working for the demo. Thus, their statement is a simple speculation, nevertheless highly hypocritical if I look behind their back and dig out, exempli gratia, "The Courtesy of Soviet".
But just to make it simple for you, in your own words: better watch your words then and try to realize only why the DEMO WAS MADE in the first place.
For the end, please make clear what are you 'ritin' about? Have you read the whole thread, all the comments?Who attacked *one* member? All the more, who *attacked* at all? And if so, who attacked at the first place, if we look on it that way?
Personally, I love the products of Wrath, I like the works of Wrath members. If I disagree with the opinion of several members, I don't attack the whole group, that's it. Period. |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
;-) I think I have found a new scene buzz-word. "zombie-topic" ;-) Topic which have crawled out of the grave of forgetfulness... |
| | Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Oh my,
This is amusing. We all take ourselves and other peoples opinions far too serious sometimes. Admit that there really are people (outside the retardscene, that is) producing stuff just for the sake of producing - putting together a more or less decent release just for the sake of participating, adding something to the "stream" of more or less important releases. It's natural, and also a part of todays mentality! For instance, just look at all the sidcompoentries. 50 percent of those are just created for the sake of the compo, right? I wouldn't call it "dim, cold calculation", but I would surely say "50% of the tunes are made for the sake of participating in a bigger event, adding more water to the stream". Same goes for many compoentries. Am I wrong here? The retardscene, on the other hand, produces only for the sake of production.
But please continue this discussion, I enjoy reading it.
Disco Calculi. We'll that's a handle. :D |
| | Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 947 |
<snip>
"a dim, coldly calculated concept made for the due of things. Sadly enough all too recent as demands for not letting the stream dry up completely".
Maybe the critic miss-spelled: a dim, coldly ejaculated concept for the due of things. Sadly enough all too recent as demands for not letting the stream dry up completely.
That way, it's for a good cause. |
| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: <snip>
"a dim, coldly calculated concept made for the due of things. Sadly enough all too recent as demands for not letting the stream dry up completely".
Maybe the critic miss-spelled: a dim, coldly ejaculated concept for the due of things. Sadly enough all too recent as demands for not letting the stream dry up completely.
That way, it's for a good cause.
:) |
| | Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
I guess there is no point of any further comments from me here as it seems, although somewhat roughly scetched by TwoFlower that the issue is far more advanced than presented here sofar. As I stated and will say again: "you should have a look at or try to find out the reason why the article was written in the first place" then maybe things will become atleast in one sense more clear.
And yes Jailbird. I will watch my words from now on.
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| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Ed what Twoflower said is something else than your article claims. It's clearly visible that what started this thread was my hot-blooded reaction, but I don't feel like adding or removing anything from this long-forgotten-zombie-thread. I still think that the mentioned part of the review was metaphysical daemagogic crap.
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| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Allrightie. There's really no need to roll the rock further.
Ok Ed, nevermind. Seems I'm missing a point about that article... and you're probably right. Amen to that. We have all learned our lesson, yippie... So let's just stop arguing about a hasty sentence, and do something creative instead. Pretty please.
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| | Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
Quote: Allrightie. There's really no need to roll the rock further.
Ok Ed, nevermind. Seems I'm missing a point about that article... and you're probably right. Amen to that. We have all learned our lesson, yippie... So let's just stop arguing about a hasty sentence, and do something creative instead. Pretty please.
Well. Both yes and no in a sense. I thought I was creative enough to finally answer to some of the bollocks (yes! since opinion matters....) written behind my back, that's why I joined this forum in the first place :)
About creativity on a larger scale - That could be a problem since the release by me and Joe (the .avi-files found here! - which by the way noone ever spoke about(?), despite the fact that it's five years of work put together in one piece.... )
We got no inspiration whatsoever nor time for that matter to finish the real demo on the c64. So in a way, I guess that we will continue being creative with the Vandalism News-thingy but will probably never ever contribute anything else to this scene as there are plenty of scenes left to explore - that's: unless we are motivated again to do so... |
| | Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
Quote: Ed what Twoflower said is something else than your article claims. It's clearly visible that what started this thread was my hot-blooded reaction, but I don't feel like adding or removing anything from this long-forgotten-zombie-thread. I still think that the mentioned part of the review was metaphysical daemagogic crap.
Why should you remove anything? That would be a stupid thing to do. Actually, I was surprised noone else shared your reaction in the first place :)
(but hey, I just got back on the internet and havent really dug in the matter so...)
About Twoflower. His text surely shows that there is a need for discussion, aswell as your "hot-blooded reaction", which was the intention in the first place. Nevertheless, it is a shame that it had to be metaphysical daemagogic crap that started it in the first place.
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| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: Why should you remove anything? That would be a stupid thing to do. Actually, I was surprised noone else shared your reaction in the first place :)
(but hey, I just got back on the internet and havent really dug in the matter so...)
About Twoflower. His text surely shows that there is a need for discussion, aswell as your "hot-blooded reaction", which was the intention in the first place. Nevertheless, it is a shame that it had to be metaphysical daemagogic crap that started it in the first place.
Good point. I must admit that I had suspicion this being-ever-so-friendly scene was maybe scared of mighty sophisticated wrath of WD, but who knows, maybe they agreed with the article. Maybe the problem is that not much people who actually care about such things had read the article. Sometimes in the second half of the last yer I got idea to put some of the actual Wandalism News articles at c64.sk for wider discussion, but Jazzcat didn't agree with the idea. My idea was to get people talk and react on what was written in WN. It seems to me, that nowadys we just live our lifes and ocassionaly check or release some stuff. The era of fulltime scene-life is long gone for most of us. I wish we at least cared more about what we think or produce, but without communication how can we know how much we actually care. (c64scene.net helps a lot to show that a good release gets some attention, although the names of people who showed their interest or appreaciation usuall repeat.
As far as video you talk about is concerned, I don't know how others but I usually check such production only on parties in wild compos as I don't see any meaning in checking it alone at home. There is still lot of C64 releases which I have never seen or played or listened to.. why should I extend my C64 hobby to c64-related things. I actually listened to quite a few MP3 remixes from remix kwed org lately, as I got them all burned on CD's (thank Wotnau) but that's roughly all I was willing to do as it only needs listening and that can be done while work. I was always quite negative as far as C64-related non-c64 productions were concerned but mostly beacause I didn't think this kind of releases aren't appropriate for c64.sk news.
It's a pity you guys don't feel like doing some bigger C64 production again (sorry if I got your previous post right ;-), as this kind of release would be more appreaciated in C64 circles than any fancy video, but still, I learned to never take this kind of talk for granted. There were so many leavers and returners (even surprising ones) since I stared to follow the scen more closely. It's a long time ago (when my 2 older brothers stopped their creativity on C64) and I reconciled with the scene as it is... 3 years ago I thought I could make bigger impact that I already did, but it seems that it needs even more energy than I already invested. I only achieved that nowadays it's a little bit easier to watch this movement walking towards some unpredictable destination and thanx to c64scene.net produced by Noname guys there also is some sensible alternative to arty-farty general scene art-databse sites. I would love if it was more open and transparent than it is now, but I must admit that it's still much better than anything I would have done, if I ever started. Now only wish I have is that C64 sceners stopped saving, waking up, or cathegorising the scene and talked more about C64 releases and productions themselves. What they gave them, how they feel about them and if they like or dislike them. Whatever is much better putting a group of sceners into a box labelled (for example) retard scene.
Roman |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
You know, there is something about opinions and people which always seems to get the blood boiling. Wait a minute, that's because opinions tend to differ, and thus emotional responses emerge. What we have in the Vandalism News is an opinion, which is hence biased, and no amount of emotional response or reaction will turn it into something else. Perhaps the author of this comment will revise his opinion in the future, perhaps he won't, but in the end that's his business, not anyone else's.
I understand that this is a discussion forum and hence the author's quote can be discussed and scrutinised, but fact of the matter is that nothing changes and nothing will change as far as that text in that edition of Vandalism News goes. Although this thread has its merits in allowing us to vent some steam, it is meaningless otherwise. Leave it be and return to what really matters...
Opinions? No. They don't really matter.
Demos/graphics/music? Yes. They really matter.
I deplore the loss of a creative team as far as demos and music go. Hey, it happens. Good luck with the magazine and the other projects. It's the very least I can wish. |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote: Well. Both yes and no in a sense. I thought I was creative enough to finally answer to some of the bollocks (yes! since opinion matters....) written behind my back, that's why I joined this forum in the first place :)
About creativity on a larger scale - That could be a problem since the release by me and Joe (the .avi-files found here! - which by the way noone ever spoke about(?), despite the fact that it's five years of work put together in one piece.... )
We got no inspiration whatsoever nor time for that matter to finish the real demo on the c64. So in a way, I guess that we will continue being creative with the Vandalism News-thingy but will probably never ever contribute anything else to this scene as there are plenty of scenes left to explore - that's: unless we are motivated again to do so...
Well, since the forum is open, nothing was written behind your back - all the more, I think that the discussions are mainly pointed to the public - toward a larger scale. A similar thread was started on C64.sk as well. Personally, I wasn't even seriously involved in this forum room until you've showed up with your first post (although I didn't knew it was you - just suspecting :)...
I do this fucking scening just for the fun of it, and in case I wouldn't enjoy it, I'd just leave the scene. So easy. I absolutely agree that the C64 scene could be a field of creativity and innovation, but personally I was always annoyed by the limits of the C64 which forced my imagination into boundaries. I'm trying to move forward, however. You guys suffer from lack of time, motivation or passion, well same here...
You know what's the problem with .AVIs: huuuuuge files. A lot of us won't download it, thus never see it, and consequently never discuss the work. Honestly, I don't even know what are you writing about. Some kind of a performance? A demo preview?
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| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: You know, there is something about opinions and people which always seems to get the blood boiling. Wait a minute, that's because opinions tend to differ, and thus emotional responses emerge. What we have in the Vandalism News is an opinion, which is hence biased, and no amount of emotional response or reaction will turn it into something else. Perhaps the author of this comment will revise his opinion in the future, perhaps he won't, but in the end that's his business, not anyone else's.
I understand that this is a discussion forum and hence the author's quote can be discussed and scrutinised, but fact of the matter is that nothing changes and nothing will change as far as that text in that edition of Vandalism News goes. Although this thread has its merits in allowing us to vent some steam, it is meaningless otherwise. Leave it be and return to what really matters...
Opinions? No. They don't really matter.
Demos/graphics/music? Yes. They really matter.
I deplore the loss of a creative team as far as demos and music go. Hey, it happens. Good luck with the magazine and the other projects. It's the very least I can wish.
Seems like you haven't noticed the little detail that some people have the bad habbit of writting their opinions as facts... |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
I understand that, and not much can be done about it, but that's human nature. Over the years, you tend to form a certain image of something, and then that image will merge with the facts. However, there are no facts here other than that a review was written in Vandalism News, and as we know, reviews are subjective opinions about something. In how far you wish to believe these opinions is another matter.
Example from another place: If you read any US review on any Resident Evil game, you can be sure that there's a rant on the control scheme in there somewhere. Now personally, I'd like to call these reviewers incompetent a55monkeys who probably use their noses to move the controllers. I've tried discussing it with them, stating the facts about the control system, that it isn't bad at all but requires practise etc etc, but in the end, you can't change a thing.
Their dislike of the control system is just their opinion, and it doesn't really matter - hundreds of thousands of people still buy the Resident Evil games and can work it, despite the 'flawed' control scheme. It was foolish of me to try and argue with them, so after that experience, I just stopped bothering.
Reviews are always subjective things, so it's relative if a statement comes over as 'radical', or 'wrong'. To others, it might be 'conform', or 'right'. Facts have nothing to do there. Besides, purely objective 'reviews' would be quite boring. Isn't it nice to read a review from someone who has a different perspective on things? Although their opinion is irrelevant in principle, it is nice (if the review's bad) to let it affect yourself and get motivated to get better at stuff and kick their collective behinds with the next prod =).
Laatttteeeeee! |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
That's a good point, actually....many people wrongfully tend to read reviews as facts and how "you must feel" about something, but most of these people fail to remember that it is ONE persons conception, not necessarily the whole WORLDS conception....
I learned that a long time ago ;-) |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: That's a good point, actually....many people wrongfully tend to read reviews as facts and how "you must feel" about something, but most of these people fail to remember that it is ONE persons conception, not necessarily the whole WORLDS conception....
I learned that a long time ago ;-)
Well.. I don't have anything against controversial reviews (e.g. The Dark Judge ones) even when I sometimes don't agree with them. Even last VIP's and yours entry tends to be quite offtopic in all this debate. I'm not against the reviewers opinion about the reviewed product, but I was upset by the reviewers attempt to put the authors of the production into the shelf of "we must save the commodore" actions.. |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
CreamD, my previous entry just answered your thought right before it, so I apologise if it may seem offtopic. However, the fact that the author of that review catalogues sceners into certain shelves is, again, his opinion, and the same arguments and afterthoughts apply. |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: CreamD, my previous entry just answered your thought right before it, so I apologise if it may seem offtopic. However, the fact that the author of that review catalogues sceners into certain shelves is, again, his opinion, and the same arguments and afterthoughts apply.
Unfortunately I have to repeate myself again. Seems like you haven't noticed the little detail that some people have the bad habbit of writting their opinions as facts... I thought your post agreed with that premise, now it seems like if we were walking in circles. ;-) |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Might be off-topic, but then again I don't think so - what I meant was simply that maybe some people write their own opinions as facts, but don't we all have brains in our heads and therefore able to make up our own opinions, you think?
And if some people isn't able to make up their own mind, they thier opinions really matter to you? And if so, WHY? |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: Might be off-topic, but then again I don't think so - what I meant was simply that maybe some people write their own opinions as facts, but don't we all have brains in our heads and therefore able to make up our own opinions, you think?
And if some people isn't able to make up their own mind, they thier opinions really matter to you? And if so, WHY?
Yes. BECAUSE. |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
I'll have to agree with Crossfire on this one. You may think we are walking in circles, but it doesn't seem like it to me. The author's statement might have sounded like a fact, but it isn't - it's an opinion, and you must decide as to how it influences you. In principle, however, an opinion doesn't matter. It's all relative. |
| | Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm flaming the hell out of you, but that's not really the intention, so here goes:
This opinion/fact distinction you're all using is so over-simplified that it's completely detached from reality. The relevance of opinions differ a lot, and what might be an important statement in one situation might be nonsense in another one. And what's usually referred to as facts are really opinions too, unless you're using the word in a way that's so abstract that it's completely useless.
Now, I guess that was kind of off-topic, but this discussion has been going in circles for days now, so anything that could affect it in a positive way should be at least a little bit on-topic. |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm flaming the hell out of you, but that's not really the intention, so here goes:
This opinion/fact distinction you're all using is so over-simplified that it's completely detached from reality. The relevance of opinions differ a lot, and what might be an important statement in one situation might be nonsense in another one. And what's usually referred to as facts are really opinions too, unless you're using the word in a way that's so abstract that it's completely useless.
Now, I guess that was kind of off-topic, but this discussion has been going in circles for days now, so anything that could affect it in a positive way should be at least a little bit on-topic.
The sad thing on all this is that one doesn't learn if people actually like or dislike the fact that someone says they are doing the things just for the sake of saving the stream of drying completely, but one reads a lot of wise bla bla and yadi yadi about how it's important to respect others opinion even when it is completely ignorant, stupid and arogantly pretentious. And the most saddest (sic!) thing is the fact that I'm not even frustrated about it anymore. It seems like scene is getting more and more impotent and senile with us all getting close to 30+...
...anyway I have news for you. I stopped composing on c64, but what do you think about my new C64 mp3 remix released at... ah forget it... (going to vomit) |
| | hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
Quote: The sad thing on all this is that one doesn't learn if people actually like or dislike the fact that someone says they are doing the things just for the sake of saving the stream of drying completely, but one reads a lot of wise bla bla and yadi yadi about how it's important to respect others opinion even when it is completely ignorant, stupid and arogantly pretentious. And the most saddest (sic!) thing is the fact that I'm not even frustrated about it anymore. It seems like scene is getting more and more impotent and senile with us all getting close to 30+...
...anyway I have news for you. I stopped composing on c64, but what do you think about my new C64 mp3 remix released at... ah forget it... (going to vomit)
c64 mp3 remix...why not? anything that keeps you from starting(and keeping alive) threads like this is something positive i my eyes.
however i am a bit impressed that you actually managed to make something out of that certain sentence in the review in the first place, i still dont quite get it. but really, if you look at most of the parts in singles collection, how can you not start to question the motives of the participators? |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: c64 mp3 remix...why not? anything that keeps you from starting(and keeping alive) threads like this is something positive i my eyes.
however i am a bit impressed that you actually managed to make something out of that certain sentence in the review in the first place, i still dont quite get it. but really, if you look at most of the parts in singles collection, how can you not start to question the motives of the participators?
So what was your motive (in the first place) for example? Was it a dim cold calculation? ;-)
That mp3 remix was an attempt for a bad joke actually...
and btw. that thread was started 2 years ago.. and it was not me who digged it out of the grave. |
| | Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
As I'm 30, old and full of wise bla-bla/yadi-yada, I can safely say that Hollowman is all about dim, cold (pre-)calculation. But that's just an opinion, so it probably doesn't count. |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Quote: Yes. BECAUSE.
Dude, that's not an answer.....
Anyway, didn't really mean to get all tangled up in the discussion, just wanted to add my two cents.. BUT - it appears to me that this discussion is about something completely different when you look closer at it; that is, why do you take a little bit of critisism so personally?
Hell, if I had to take everything said about me, my person, my groups, my dirty deeds and my releases in the past upon myself as a personal hunchback, I'd probably be locked up in an asylum somewhere... |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
Well, I don't know, but I do think you can make a distinction about opinion and fact, unless you are willing to go on a wild philosophical tangent. A fact would be that I went to a party recently, and a journalist could write 'V went to a party'. I suspect that noone would argue about this, but rather complain, rightfully, 'Why should I care about that?' An opinion would be if the journalist wrote, 'In an act of dim, cold calculation, V went to a party and was only moderately cool'.
There is a noticeable difference between objectivism and subjectivism, and reviews, in general, are subjective, so their value is limited to the extent that you are willing to accept its (ir)relevance. |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: Well, I don't know, but I do think you can make a distinction about opinion and fact, unless you are willing to go on a wild philosophical tangent. A fact would be that I went to a party recently, and a journalist could write 'V went to a party'. I suspect that noone would argue about this, but rather complain, rightfully, 'Why should I care about that?' An opinion would be if the journalist wrote, 'In an act of dim, cold calculation, V went to a party and was only moderately cool'.
There is a noticeable difference between objectivism and subjectivism, and reviews, in general, are subjective, so their value is limited to the extent that you are willing to accept its (ir)relevance.
Good point, but how competent is opinion without insight?
If we talk about journalist who were on a party who knows basic journalist guidelines and ethical principles (not the yellow press one) he would go to the party, gather info, maybe interview people and then write an article. He would not sit behind the table with pencil in his mouth and typic some invented crap in his review.
The art reviewer would probably also need to know some facts about the author of the reviewed thing, at least if he will attempt to question the motives behind that art.
All in all, journalist or reviewer both should be educated about the problematics before they write about it otherwise they risk that it shows in their articles that they are ignorant in that aspect. In case of C64 scene magazine, nobody can expect that e.g. invented interview, or stolen article will cause that editor will be thrown out of the magazine as in the real world. We generally ignore many of such unethical cases, as we are used to them. The same goes with crappy reviews.
Now if I knew that auhor of the review is at least slightly right about that claim. I would shut up, but I'm pretty sure that this collection was just realisation of one crazy idea. (I didn't believe that it would work, but it did) Now you are right, I could accept the irrelevance, but I didn't. And even if I was alone in this, I simply don't want to accept everything without reaction. When I disagree I say that. As I already mentioned, I think that starting post of this topic was a hot-blooded reaction. I would probably not write such crappy reviewer-insulting post today.
"this discussion is about something completely different when you look closer at it; that is, why do you take a little bit of critisism so personally? "
Crossfire, you missed. Shoot again. Hint: I gave donated web-space on one of my sites for this project. I know T.M.R. Now where is my personal connection to Singles Collection volume I?
Puterman, Hollowman: thanx for making this easier for me.. ;-))))) |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
Well, I always start from the premise that when someone writes a review of something, he or she is qualified to do so. But even then, their opinion is worth as much as someone who is 'totally ignorant' or 'a complete expert', as it is an opinion. What you think about it eventually, is relative as it differs from person to person.
And because of this diversity, discussing it makes little sense other than venting some steam, as you rightfully realised. Now, steam-venting can be a good thing, so it's okay to be hot-blooded now and again. I'll be the first to admit that, although I don't care about opinions by principle, I'm still human and sometimes it can just hurt. Luckily, once the smoke clears, I can put it all into perspective again and continue doing what I want to do - that is, making demos. At the very least, it fires me up to better next time, which is always a good thing. |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Dear CreaMD, I missed what, exactly? I just stated my point of view, but apparently you take great offence which makes me think I should probably stop this discussion for my own part. Obviously you feel attacked for some reason. And all about this knowing TMR, donating webspace - what are you talking about? Are you trying to give me pointers to something I know absolutely nothing about - nor CARE, actually....I'm not keeping up with releases nowadays, I'm not here to be apart of the scene - the scene for me is long gone, not that I dislike the scene nowadays, but I simply have no wishes nor time to become "active" again. So that means, this "single collection", which is I'm sure is a fine release, but I have no idea what you're rambling about, and I refuse to believe I cannot have an opinion just because it doesn't suit you...
Listen dude, I gave my opinion abstractly, meaning how it is in general, not in this certain case, but apparently you failed to comprehend that "minor detail" that anyone else here figured out....already having debated this little with you it is quite obvious how you can take anything personal...which is actually a shame, dude.....and no, that's not an attack - trust me, if I attacked you, you would know it - but I'm over that BS, that belonged to the old days...I grew up, why don't you? |
| | Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
_V_: Yes, you can make the distinction and it can be a useful tool if you know what you're talking about. Parts of this discussion illustrate how such concepts can affect your thinking in negative ways. I guess _you_ know what you're talking about when you say that reviews are subjective, but it's very easy to misunderstand for people who haven't thought about these things. |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: Dear CreaMD, I missed what, exactly? I just stated my point of view, but apparently you take great offence which makes me think I should probably stop this discussion for my own part. Obviously you feel attacked for some reason. And all about this knowing TMR, donating webspace - what are you talking about? Are you trying to give me pointers to something I know absolutely nothing about - nor CARE, actually....I'm not keeping up with releases nowadays, I'm not here to be apart of the scene - the scene for me is long gone, not that I dislike the scene nowadays, but I simply have no wishes nor time to become "active" again. So that means, this "single collection", which is I'm sure is a fine release, but I have no idea what you're rambling about, and I refuse to believe I cannot have an opinion just because it doesn't suit you...
Listen dude, I gave my opinion abstractly, meaning how it is in general, not in this certain case, but apparently you failed to comprehend that "minor detail" that anyone else here figured out....already having debated this little with you it is quite obvious how you can take anything personal...which is actually a shame, dude.....and no, that's not an attack - trust me, if I attacked you, you would know it - but I'm over that BS, that belonged to the old days...I grew up, why don't you?
First of all, I would like to avoid longish argument with another long-gone-dude. Been there done that. Let's make the complicated things simple. No I'm not taking your abstract opinion personal, I'm not upset, I don't have anything against you. You are not here to be apart of the scene - the scene for you is long gone... |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Fine...whatever...
Amazing how a well-meant pointer can be misinterpreted into a whole full fledged argument...guess some things never change, for a second there I felt a deja-vu coming on *LOL*
And about being long gone, don't get me wrong, I fully applaud you guys spirit to keep it going, honestly. I just don't see myself as being apart of it anymore, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the company of old friends...and enemies, for that matter ;-) |
| | Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
Quote: Seems like you haven't noticed the little detail that some people have the bad habbit of writting their opinions as facts...
hmm. The .avi thingy is a c64/amiga/video-cross production. Released back in 1999 at a live-performance. It's aprox 39.33 minutes long (40 if we round it all off) video-rip of one of the original tapes (actually someone stole the real tape version at another video-performance me and Joe had...) - It is a demo and the c64 version will perhaps come in the future. It took 5 fucking hard years to work through, and believe me. The c64 version have taken equally the same amount of time. However, I count this as a WD-release and it should not be left out of anything else me and Joe did. You can see it as a cross-barrier between the "disco calculi" and "mmab", "a quoi ca sert", "homage" thingies... |
| | hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
Quote: hmm. The .avi thingy is a c64/amiga/video-cross production. Released back in 1999 at a live-performance. It's aprox 39.33 minutes long (40 if we round it all off) video-rip of one of the original tapes (actually someone stole the real tape version at another video-performance me and Joe had...) - It is a demo and the c64 version will perhaps come in the future. It took 5 fucking hard years to work through, and believe me. The c64 version have taken equally the same amount of time. However, I count this as a WD-release and it should not be left out of anything else me and Joe did. You can see it as a cross-barrier between the "disco calculi" and "mmab", "a quoi ca sert", "homage" thingies...
i finally managed to leech the .avi, and i loved it , now please do make a c64 version |
| | Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
CreamD: would be nice if you had also sent an official reaction the magazine. Of course it is healthy to discuss it here too. I think you have misinterpreted the opinions of Wrath in the demo reviews of Vandalism News.
Whether people agree with them or not is none of my concern, what does matter is that they offer a different way of viewing productions. The struggle of finding deeper meanings is a hard task and I commend them for their efforts.
"Flaming" - always hated that pathetic term. I much prefer the C64 version known as "ragging.
Hear the screen of the C64 butterfly, crying out loud and hurting the ears of PC cattle! |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: CreamD: would be nice if you had also sent an official reaction the magazine. Of course it is healthy to discuss it here too. I think you have misinterpreted the opinions of Wrath in the demo reviews of Vandalism News.
Whether people agree with them or not is none of my concern, what does matter is that they offer a different way of viewing productions. The struggle of finding deeper meanings is a hard task and I commend them for their efforts.
"Flaming" - always hated that pathetic term. I much prefer the C64 version known as "ragging.
Hear the screen of the C64 butterfly, crying out loud and hurting the ears of PC cattle!
Misinterpreted?! |
| | Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
You mentioned that the critics in question were incompetent. I highly doubt this and thus I come to my own conclusion that you must have misinterpreted their opinions.
I love it these days when somebody gets so passionate about the C64 - thats the spirit I like, hopefully not a destructive spirit... or self-destructive at that...
|
| | Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
Quote: i finally managed to leech the .avi, and i loved it , now please do make a c64 version
well. Once upon a time in Bjuv, we actually was planning to show you a preview of the c64 version but as we forgot the discs at home :) |
| | Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
"Once upon a time in Bjuv", isn't that a movie? |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Quote: Misinterpreted?!
Yes CreaMD, it's a synonym - or "other word", if you like - for "misunderstood"
Hey David, is this really what ragging has been reduced to this these days? Used to remember it quite alot more explicit, haha ;-) |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: Yes CreaMD, it's a synonym - or "other word", if you like - for "misunderstood"
Hey David, is this really what ragging has been reduced to this these days? Used to remember it quite alot more explicit, haha ;-)
Crossfire, well if this is the only thing you can add to this discussion .. now, next time before you feel like adding some more of your detached and relaxed important ex-scener 2cents, to show me how above things you are, please how about if you opened the mentioned magazine in emulator and checked some of that highly sophisticated abracadbra for yourself. If you don't feel like getting acquainted with the discussed subject, how about if you returned to your favourite subjects discussed somewhere else in other threads of these forums. |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: You mentioned that the critics in question were incompetent. I highly doubt this and thus I come to my own conclusion that you must have misinterpreted their opinions.
I love it these days when somebody gets so passionate about the C64 - thats the spirit I like, hopefully not a destructive spirit... or self-destructive at that...
Jazz, as I have alredy mentioned couple of times, the post was written 2 years ago and I *felt* like writing it this way 2 years ago after reading the mentioned article which everybody interested in this debate should reread if you he really wants to understand why I could get so upset at that time.
As I already said it was hot-blooded reaction and I would more than probably not use words like incompetent today. Still I think the part of the review I have quoted was highly pretentious and unjustified. That part and that IDEA in the quote is an utter crap. And now please let's talk about something different, because as you can see Ed doesn't feel any necessity to add anything to this, and I don't feel like rephrasing myself over and over again.
Next time I get upset about some article in Vandalism, I'll send over a reaction, althought I would be very glad to have your permission to publish such controversial text over at c64.sk and leave people to react on such topic. Then you could compile your reactions chapter and you could (not necessarily) stay neutral in the discussion. I think it could increase the communication and bring some additional value to the articles published in Vandalism. It's good when discussion doesn't end by publishing of the text, demo or anything else.
Roman |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Quote: Crossfire, well if this is the only thing you can add to this discussion .. now, next time before you feel like adding some more of your detached and relaxed important ex-scener 2cents, to show me how above things you are, please how about if you opened the mentioned magazine in emulator and checked some of that highly sophisticated abracadbra for yourself. If you don't feel like getting acquainted with the discussed subject, how about if you returned to your favourite subjects discussed somewhere else in other threads of these forums.
CreaMD, I don't know exactly what your problem is - you seemed confused about a word and I tried to shed some light on it for you - apparently THAT is an attack too.. And honestly, if I felt so "above" things as you claim, do you seriously think I would spend time here - I'm here to have a little fun...and to be honest, IF I really WANTED to have a ragtime with anyone I can easily find a lot of people here who would be a lot more fun - but why would I? What would I gain, like I said, I'm not even apart of the scene anymore..
I think you really should try to go out in the real world instead of sitting infront of the computer all day feeling attacked.....or maybe you should just grow out of your paranoid fantasies...Sheesh....Don't get me wrong, I've been there, I remember how it is, and it's not healthy, dude..
Oh, and btw, THAT was also well-meant advice, not an attack...so don't be a child and fly off the handle, instead try to think about it, ok? |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Oh, nearly forgot...on to the topic at hand, I already told you a couple of times now that my comment was not specified for this case only, but for cases LIKE this in general... I don't know what's so hard to understand about that...
Furthermore, the world doesn't evolve around your opinions, dude - the rest of us are entitled for our own opinions aswell, without first mailing you asking if it's ok - I think you should respect that fact! I respect your opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you, does it? NOPE! You should probably LEARN the first rules of journalism instead of just claiming you know them, cause to those of us who actually have some experience in the field it is clear that you don't...
Sorry, I have to bring that up, cause I gotta admit I'm starting to get a liiiiiittle tired of this lame and totally irrelevant discussion.. |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: Oh, nearly forgot...on to the topic at hand, I already told you a couple of times now that my comment was not specified for this case only, but for cases LIKE this in general... I don't know what's so hard to understand about that...
Furthermore, the world doesn't evolve around your opinions, dude - the rest of us are entitled for our own opinions aswell, without first mailing you asking if it's ok - I think you should respect that fact! I respect your opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you, does it? NOPE! You should probably LEARN the first rules of journalism instead of just claiming you know them, cause to those of us who actually have some experience in the field it is clear that you don't...
Sorry, I have to bring that up, cause I gotta admit I'm starting to get a liiiiiittle tired of this lame and totally irrelevant discussion..
"you seemed confused about a word"
If i'm confused about the meaning of the word I usally consult explanatory dictionary. I was actaully surprised about the fact that David used this word at all which actually didn't surprise you. That's very funny because you didn't read the review and don't know anything about the whole problem, but felt the urge to teach me the meaning of a word, which reminds me the "rich past & present"-incident with one dude in other thread ;-).
"I think you really should try to go out in the real world instead of sitting infront of the computer all day feeling attacked.....or maybe you should just grow out of your paranoid fantasies...Sheesh....Don't get me wrong, I've been there, I remember how it is, and it's not healthy, dude.."
Well, this kind of get-a-life argument is also very funny. I wonder how did you come to conclusion that I'm paranoid.
"Oh, and btw, THAT was also well-meant advice, not an attack...so don't be a child and fly off the handle, instead try to think about it, ok?"
Ok. I was thinking about it, for a second and I came to conclusion that I'm probably prejudiced towards old ex-sceners patrnising me. I'm really sorry for that.
"Oh, nearly forgot...on to the topic at hand, I already told you a couple of times now that my comment was not specified for this case only, but for cases LIKE this in general... I don't know what's so hard to understand about that..."
Maybe the fact that I don't like when someone tells me forget it, that's the life it is. Especially in the cases where I feel there is possibility to change it.
"Furthermore, the world doesn't evolve around your opinions, dude - the rest of us are entitled for our own opinions aswell, without first mailing you asking if it's ok - I think you should respect that fact!" I respect your opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with you, does it? NOPE! You should probably LEARN the first rules of journalism instead of just claiming you know them, cause to those of us who actually have some experience in the field it is clear that you don't..."
See what I mean. Patronising...
"Sorry, I have to bring that up, cause I gotta admit I'm starting to get a liiiiiittle tired of this lame and totally irrelevant discussion.."
Me too. Let's forget it. |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
..gotta admit I hyperscrolled through your post, didn't have the energy to read it, however stumbled across this sentence you wrote:
"Ok. I was thinking about it, for a second and I came to conclusion that I'm probably prejudiced towards old ex-sceners patrnising me. I'm really sorry for that."
OK, I have absolute no idea what you're talking about.. Try for a second to see it from my point of view: I don't know WHO you are, I never stumbled across your name until I signed up at this forum a couple of months ago, so what would kind of a problem could I possibly have with you? As far as I know, you and I never met or crossed paths in the past.. (could be wrong but this is what I know when writing this)
Dude, the most annoying thing here is actually that I never meant for a discussion, I just added the experience I had from the past with years of writing myself for The Pulse Magazine and Scene+, not to forget all the enourmous amounts of texts from other magazines I've read over the years. I've told you many times now that my opinion was abstract and not for a certain case - not YOUR case, nor ANY other specific case, and yet, you still wanna argue and use the same points over and over..
NOW - my point is, whatever these ex-sceners you speak of in this sentence has done or said about you that you find so patronising, can we atleast agree that because I'm an ex-scener I do not necessarily HAVE to share all other ex-sceners opinions about things? Because some, whoever it might be, ex-scener have badmouthed you in the past or whatever, that does not mean that I, Crossfire, did it aswell..
It seems you bear a huge grudge to the people of the "old scene", and sure, some are fucking arrogant, no doubt about that, but don't forget that THIS scene would never have existed if the "old" people hadn't kept it alive back then..
...and NO, I do not expect a thank you, but what I DO expect is the same goddamn courtesy I sure feel I'm giving YOU - the "new" people.... Isn't that fair enough, when you think about it?
So in conclusion, that sentence, being all from your last post I read, I don't know if you meant what you wrote or you were being sarcastic - either way, this, my friend, is my final words on the matter!! |
| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: ..gotta admit I hyperscrolled through your post, didn't have the energy to read it, however stumbled across this sentence you wrote:
"Ok. I was thinking about it, for a second and I came to conclusion that I'm probably prejudiced towards old ex-sceners patrnising me. I'm really sorry for that."
OK, I have absolute no idea what you're talking about.. Try for a second to see it from my point of view: I don't know WHO you are, I never stumbled across your name until I signed up at this forum a couple of months ago, so what would kind of a problem could I possibly have with you? As far as I know, you and I never met or crossed paths in the past.. (could be wrong but this is what I know when writing this)
Dude, the most annoying thing here is actually that I never meant for a discussion, I just added the experience I had from the past with years of writing myself for The Pulse Magazine and Scene+, not to forget all the enourmous amounts of texts from other magazines I've read over the years. I've told you many times now that my opinion was abstract and not for a certain case - not YOUR case, nor ANY other specific case, and yet, you still wanna argue and use the same points over and over..
NOW - my point is, whatever these ex-sceners you speak of in this sentence has done or said about you that you find so patronising, can we atleast agree that because I'm an ex-scener I do not necessarily HAVE to share all other ex-sceners opinions about things? Because some, whoever it might be, ex-scener have badmouthed you in the past or whatever, that does not mean that I, Crossfire, did it aswell..
It seems you bear a huge grudge to the people of the "old scene", and sure, some are fucking arrogant, no doubt about that, but don't forget that THIS scene would never have existed if the "old" people hadn't kept it alive back then..
...and NO, I do not expect a thank you, but what I DO expect is the same goddamn courtesy I sure feel I'm giving YOU - the "new" people.... Isn't that fair enough, when you think about it?
So in conclusion, that sentence, being all from your last post I read, I don't know if you meant what you wrote or you were being sarcastic - either way, this, my friend, is my final words on the matter!!
Ok I'll also keep things short. In most cases arrogance comes hand in hand with ignorance. While I know who you were, you didn;t know who I was. I can live with that. Just maybe if you tried to be more responsive toward what I write if you want to produce so verbally rich final arguments. ;-) |
| | Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
I've witnessed CreamD arguing with many sceners who used to be on the C64 in the past. It's almost as if he feels threatened by them. I have no idea what goes on in his head that make him as "hot blooded" as he is.
CreamD: can't you just react calmly to Crossfire instead of going off the 'deep end' all the time?
As for online articles of Vandalism News to the C64 News Portal - I disagree. We want to advertise a disk magazine for people to read on C64 (or in an emulator even) - not a "related" C64 production that is not actually made on the C64.
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| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: I've witnessed CreamD arguing with many sceners who used to be on the C64 in the past. It's almost as if he feels threatened by them. I have no idea what goes on in his head that make him as "hot blooded" as he is.
CreamD: can't you just react calmly to Crossfire instead of going off the 'deep end' all the time?
As for online articles of Vandalism News to the C64 News Portal - I disagree. We want to advertise a disk magazine for people to read on C64 (or in an emulator even) - not a "related" C64 production that is not actually made on the C64.
As far as the first part of the message is concerned. I've got into argument with Radar, now with Crossfire (I don't count rrr back in.. hm.. 97? ;-). If I forgot anyone feel free to remind me I'll add a score on my right shoulder. Maybe you mix my arguments about cracking with Taper and you into the same cathegory, but they aren't.
"As for online articles of Vandalism New..."
I know...
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| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
It sort of explains the whole cha-bang... Fine.. And just to reply to your question, CreaMD: Sure I could, but to be honest I'm bored out of my mind with this lameass discussion, so there.. |
| | Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Crossfire: The intensity of arguments hasn't been the same since around 1996. There is now just useless squabbels and bickering never amounting to much.
It's a pity, as back in the past people were more energetic and more interesting! Has the WWW made people this boring?
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| | Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
The WWW not only makes people less energetic and interesting, it can also make you fat, give you cancer and HIV, turn you into a drug addict (if you're not one already), make you lose your hair, break your back, raise beer prices to ridiculous amounts, refuse to mowe your lawn, steal your medicine when you're sick, make all your old favorite tunes sound like shit (yes, even Iron Maiden!), hide all your clean socks, make holes in the soles of your shoes on a rainy day, give you explosive diarrhoea and, finally, turn you into a nerd. Yes, it could happen to _you_. |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Quote: Crossfire: The intensity of arguments hasn't been the same since around 1996. There is now just useless squabbels and bickering never amounting to much.
It's a pity, as back in the past people were more energetic and more interesting! Has the WWW made people this boring?
Jazz: Well, like we both know the cracking scene and the demo scene always were two very different things. The cracking scene was a direct competition (especially the pointhunting in the 90ies *LOL*), while the demo scene may be competitors but in a completely different way...and now there's no cracking scene left, so I guess that explains it.. But to be honest, I don't miss it, I just found it a bit funny this discussion was being put in the same box as "ragging", cause that's not how I remember it. ;-)
Puterman: You actually contracted HIV over the net? Wow, must have been one hell of a pornsite ;-) *LOL* |
| | Metal Maniac
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 12 |
Pornsite ? Where ?
;)
Is this thread about Singles Collection ? Didn't I do a part for that ? Cool, wonder what the thread was all about ;)
Crossfire,
greetings pal, I just read some swappingletters from you I found when I were at my parents place cleaning out their place as they are moving. Cool that I saved some of that old stuff!
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| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Hey MM, sure has been a long time ;-) |
| | Metal Maniac
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 12 |
Yeah, its nice meeting you (and alot of other lamers, oh I man pals) over here.
Are you active on C64 in someway ?
I am. Lol. |
| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Not since like 1998 or 1999, nope *G* Just hanging around here for the sheer fun of it....although out of the scene, one is still curious, you know ;-) |
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