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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
C*Base like webbs
Hi mates,
you probably have heard of the web-bbs, me,Jazzcat,Uzzy,Jucke,Macx and Taper is working on.. Now, we somehow got a major problem.
while Jazzcat,Macx,Jucke and Taper wants to have a real C*Base Emulation, including Key Events (means no mouse clicks etc) and stuff, wich means that we have to use Javascript, me and Uzzy will keep the board core PHP without any Javascript, just like Spankerz Heaven was (yep: i know it was made in Perl.. ).
So i'd like to knnow, what counts more.. having a real c*base clone with almost allfunktion, wich probably will have serious Browser and Os problems since it is build with Javascript/PHP, or just the way like SH used to be.. just with heaps of c/g graphics and mouse-click ;).
i'd like to know what you think! ..
my humble opinion is, that i dislike the idea of making a almost 100% clone emulation of a c64 c*base bbs ... and i couldn't believe that it also will emulate the feelings, you once has got, when you called a c-64 BBS... but anyway, i am open for everthing.
my 2Eurocent.
(M) |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
Yes, I am also interested in what others think about this.
Opposed to Shock'Ray, I think that a web bbs that looks and functions just like a real c*base board would be the coolest thing to do. We have seen numerous web-boards and forums using the point & click interface, and eventhough it does work, it's nothing special, nothing unique.
Ofcourse no emulation is ever perfect, and I would prefer if the true dialup boards were still bustling with life and activity, but this is evidently not the case anymore.
Subs, UD areas and so on have been the core of any bbs system, be it c64/amiga/pc or console boards. So, for me, it would bring a lot to the feeling if the bbs looked as similar to a real c64 bbs as possible, because that is one of the things that was truly unique with the legendary c64 boards, which mostly ran on c*base.
Taper/TRIAD |
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Give me anything like a GOOD BBS and I am there!
SH was a good place to be, but since the SCS guys left off
like a fume in a good fart, we lack a good place to meet.
Bring me anything sexy and I turn you all on!
Trazan! |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
I agree with taper and co. a cli driven interface would be nicer :)
and would also be alot faster, than the wysiwyg gfx heavy forums. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2924 |
I'd like to point out a few misconceptions about "legendary boards" here:
1. Most top wares boards ran Ivory BBS back in the day. If those boards were still around once UC BBS was released - they switched.
2. Back in the day only lamer boards ran C*Base, Image BBS, AA BBS, and other similar "big" BBS programs.
I'm not bashing anybodies idea of what a good BBS was/is - just stating the facts...
Having said that - a web based C*Base board would be nice. :)
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
Moloch is right that many boards in the US ran UC BBS, but at the time I started calling out & doing h/p, newer mods of c*base totally dominated the boards overseas. I know some boards also switched from UC BBS to c*base. Ivory Bbs was probably before my modem days, so I can't comment on that.
For me, c*base always was the best system, eventhough Color64 was kinds nice aswell. Never did like UC BBS, played around with it a bit before I set up my own board Antidote in Sweden, but soon decided to go with c*base instead.
Glad to see people positive to a c*base clone, by the way! :)
Taper/TRIAD |
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LordNikon
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 42 |
Web BBS? Good idea... i like bbs systems. But using key events and so on is better than clicking... so use java script ;) |
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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
..uh, hold your horses.. hehe .. no i do not try to make a uc-bbs clone... haha .. its even more pervert than c*base is/was, calling Boards such as -> In Living Colors <- was horrible.. ;) j/k.
i still don't know if people really like to have to type 's','o' and whatever else .. instead of using the mouse. also make sure to have an eye on the browser specific stuff.. javascript in IE != javascript in Opera ;) ..and not to talk about the System Issues.. but anyway, a result will help.
Regards,
(M) |
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Jucke
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 35 |
Everything today is so effective, especially when it comes to computer communication, and on our way there we lost alot of the soul. Where did the SOUL go? Didnt we forget something important along the way? I believe we need to rewind a bit to be able to go further. What I lack today in this cold Networld is a place with a personal atmosphere. A feeling of exclusiveness, privacy. Ten years ago i would call a telephone number in Brooklyn NY and end up in Sorceress home in her board Mystic Cavern. It gave me the feeling of actually being someplace. (and it became so real Antichrist is still lost in that cavern;) What im trying to say is that all great c64 boards were visionary places where every little detail was created to bring out a certain impression or atmosphere. All in one creating a FEEL.
A emulation of a c64 bbs system properly shaped by board regulars and sysops would convince any c64 scener and make them want to be there. Including myself. This is important stuff and must be done the right way. There is no room for compromise anymore.
Now, if I wanted to connect to a c64 board it would feel very stupid and lame to use a Joystick, right? A keyboard would be the natural choice. I dont know about you guys, but in my world a mouse is good for drawing, but not for communicating.
just my latenite round of views.. |
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RaveGuru
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 43 |
Stiff HTML links, boring HTML forms, JPG graphics, Point, Click. It all stinks to me. I'm 101% for a BBS that looks, feels and smells like a BBS. I once made a full fledged C64 terminal proggy for PC (never got released for some reasons) and I know I can do something similar again. Please persue me! :) |
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RaveGuru
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 43 |
PS. Yes, I even reverse-engineered the good ole' Punter Protocol ;) |
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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
well, i can't help, but people say 'Emulators are Lame' while they want to have a c64-look and feel alike bbs on PC .. what comes next? ... no matter if it looks like a c64 bbs or feels like that, it is still made on PC.
echo <<<sarcasm
a C64 Demo 100% made in Flash? ;^)
sarcasm;
..but it really seems people want to have a javascript like bbs .. this would mean, it takes much longer than expected.. or maybe someone else will do the javascript version..
Raveguru: well this sounds to me, like a ordinary telnet bbs, isn't it? .. |
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Nim
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 27 |
While an emulated c64 BBS sounds cool and probably would be a novelty for a little while i don't think it's that good of an idea really...
As Jucke pointed out, calling these boards was an exclusive thing, i shudder at the thought of letting in all the 'lamers' to Mysic Cavern or Teminal Obsession, they were like exclusive club where lots of stuff happened, gossip, flame wars, discusions etc... man it was fun! I dont think it's possible to recreate it really...
there would be too much people simply put.. The BBS experience would be 'watered out'...
Another thing is that i dont really think that C*base, or any of the other C64 BBS programs are really made for this amount of users, it would et really impracticall to browse posts etc.. C*Base was good in that you could scroll through all new posts.. but even back then this used to become a huge amount.. imagine what it could be with an internet bbs with every old scener having access to it...
spam city...
As for C*Base being the lamer BBS... yeah right, in your dreams... after Ranger and i started making those sweet looking GFX interfaces everyone had C*Base... The US BBS's were stubbornly resisting though.. only Mystic Cavern had C*Base as far as i remember.. My memory isnt something i'd brag with ofcourse but still...
And another thing, Jucke, a mouse is NOT good for painting ;) You should get a digital pen and board for that (go Wacom!) ;) |
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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
yep, well that were our deepest thoughts about the bbs, making it exclusive.. not for 'all sceners'. People should have experiences with the real boards, or should be incredible cool and welknown for the things they have done in the past, otherwise they won't get access..
i know this sounds 'a bit' harsh, but that's the way it is.. i'm not sure if the others involved into this project share my opinion, but that's how _i_ would like to make the board.
i guess, as Jazzcat has wrote in one of his mails, the best solution is both mouse and key events.. |
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macx
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 253 |
i have said this before in this discussion (on other forums) and it is still my point of view: a c64bbs-clone on the internet cannot be controlled by mouseclicking. if it is, it is not a bbs-clone. those amiga- and c64boards i have been calling (and still call) have commands. p for posting.
ofcourse we can create 1800mHz-c*base using 1800mHz-ccgms, but i don't want that. as jucke mentioned, this is about c64love. and c64love has to take the time and skills necessary.
but then, i am not a coder. what is possible is not my cup of tea. behind that blue screen i'm just a dreamer.
The Bass Planet 1-609-587-4495
.s
.s
.s
whatthefuck :)
.s
.s |
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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
a complete emulation of c*base is simply nuts and impossible, due to the fact that windows has a set of keyfunctions, that you can't change.. for example :[backspace]: is not possible, you have to use :[ESC]: instead, or '.s' would become shift+s,alt+s or ctrl+s ...
true, but we can make it as close as possible... atleast i'll try. |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
A complete emulation of c*base is NOT impossible, don't give me that, cause that is plain bullshit!
Wheter it's possible to do in javascript or not I can't say, but it sure is possible to do in java. Perhaps also in php.
Taper/TRIAD |
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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
...we were talking about javascript.
in PHP (without javascript)-> !never!, since PHP is running server side. </closed> |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
Funny, I just talked to a friend of mine who works as a webdesigner and php developer. He said it was very possible to do a commandelinebased interface in php... Ohwell.. |
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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
yeah, if he claims that it is possible in >>>core php, ask him. |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
if you want the real c64 feeling, you must restrict the user amount to 1 at a time. ;) |
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Derision
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 69 |
I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about it. As was said earlier, I think it'd be interesting for a while, a novelty, but after that the novelty would wear off. I'm not going to sit around waiting for some bloated Java app to trickle to the computer via dialup and then wait for it to do things simply so I can type .s to save my post.
If it's really going to be done, then I think that a good way of doing it would be to emulate some aspects of C*Base and some aspects of other things. For instance, the message editor. Does anyone remember the ANSI editors PC, Mac and Amiga boards used sometimes? Where your commands would be listed on the top of the screen, and the text was in a "window" (albeit ANSI) that took up the rest? That might be a way to do it, and then click your save command at the top to finish. Something like that. Have it look like C*Base, but make the input method slightly different.
The only "advantage" the command line interface would serve, short of recreating the C*Base experience in a bloated Java application, would be if people with C64's were accessing it. Which we all know they won't.
Just my thoughts.
Derision
(Uzzy/Longshot) |
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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
yep, i guess i'll make it _my_ way (the simple one without the javascript schnick-schnack) .. anyway, my spare time is extreme limited at the mo' ..so it will take longer until it gets finished .. but it will, someday *g |
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macx
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 253 |
The BassPlanet 1.609.587.4495
The Studio +46.159.31991
DeadZone 1.215.744.5885
the programme is called ccgms, the baudrate is 2400 :) |
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LordNikon
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 42 |
Hi, can you say me from which lands the BBs are? |
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zyruz
Account closed
Posts: 33 |
+46 == Sweden (Studio)
+1 == USA (DZ & TBP) |
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Nim
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 27 |
HEy, +1 can be Canada too ;) |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
UC BBS was a much more 'tighter' program. Especially the version by Pudwerx (think it was 1.4) used only on two boards, the resurrected versions of FORUM and Terminal Obsession (both under the Avantgarde lable). Ofcourse these famous 'invite only' boards used older versions back in their real glory days.
C*BASE looked really nice, because of all the graphics that could be used.
Out of the two I think it is better to use C*Base.
I agree with Rough, only one user at a time should be allowed.
It should also be Invite Only and subject to the usual 'level' classifications to each user.
To have it emulated perfectly would be quite ideal. As this project becomes a reality through the persistence of people like Taper. I will be trying to collect graphics and miscellaneous material for the project.
Your contributions (buffers, gfx etc) would be welcome. |
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The Communist
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 485 |
The good times are over ! There will be never ever that much fun and agression on the boards than app. ten years back.
Who is nowdays elite anyways ? Someone who released 30 PD games jewel trained ?
NiM: Another good C*Base BBS back then was Channel 0,
Action+Empire HQ.
Nowdays I miss sometimes the fun I had with some of those who still hang around, but as stated before, the feeling is gone and won't be reproduceable.
Rough: Adam Du alter Sack, schulde Dir noch nen Tape, denke
aber, dass du es nicht zurück haben willst. (Nach
zwölf Jahren. Mein Gott, wie die Zeit vergeht.)
Immer noch nen Flat vorm Kopp ? :)
Hoffe, dass es Dir gut geht und Du die Schickeria-
preise in München zahlen kannst. CU |
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Shokray
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 66 |
Quote: The good times are over ! There will be never ever that much fun and agression on the boards than app. ten years back.
Who is nowdays elite anyways ? Someone who released 30 PD games jewel trained ?
NiM: Another good C*Base BBS back then was Channel 0,
Action+Empire HQ.
Nowdays I miss sometimes the fun I had with some of those who still hang around, but as stated before, the feeling is gone and won't be reproduceable.
Rough: Adam Du alter Sack, schulde Dir noch nen Tape, denke
aber, dass du es nicht zurück haben willst. (Nach
zwölf Jahren. Mein Gott, wie die Zeit vergeht.)
Immer noch nen Flat vorm Kopp ? :)
Hoffe, dass es Dir gut geht und Du die Schickeria-
preise in München zahlen kannst. CU
thanks for sharing my thoughts concerning the whole retrostuff,old_bbs_feelings,elite and whatever else talk. ;) |
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Magius
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 7 |
All this BBS nostalgia has me wondering: Does anybody have links to C64 BBS scene web sites? I'm looking for histories on old boards, screen shots, text logs, graphics, old BBS demos/intros, etc. Yup, I know about the C64 BBS archive, but that's just a collection of BBS programs.
There's quite a lot about the old PC BBS scene but not much about the C64. I'd love to learn more about the old long scene BBSs I could never call because of the long distance charges. All I knew about them was in cracktros.
--Magius-- |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Jazzcat: and when someone else is already online on the emulated bbs you should hear a digitized beep-beep-beep busy tone, in bad quality like calling via mci or blue boxing. ;) actually this leads to a problem. far more people will try to access this site than even the most visited bbs back then, so users will hardly get connection. 8(
Communist: Frisurentechnisch hab ich die letzten zehn Jahre so einiges auf meinem Kopf rumgetragen, ausser Spikes und Vokuhila ;) Ich hör mir hin und wieder noch so'n tape von dir an, New Model Army, Cure und so sind da drauf, die Rückseite mit Smiths hab ich damals leider überspielt. grmpfxl. welches tape hast du denn von mir? übrigens leiste ich mir eine luxuswohnung mit fussbodenheizung und hausmeisterservice. schöne grüße in den norden aus dem dekadenten bayern. |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Quote: All this BBS nostalgia has me wondering: Does anybody have links to C64 BBS scene web sites? I'm looking for histories on old boards, screen shots, text logs, graphics, old BBS demos/intros, etc. Yup, I know about the C64 BBS archive, but that's just a collection of BBS programs.
There's quite a lot about the old PC BBS scene but not much about the C64. I'd love to learn more about the old long scene BBSs I could never call because of the long distance charges. All I knew about them was in cracktros.
--Magius--
a few years ago i uploaded some lores bbs gfx onto Gangsta's Paradise, they should be in dirs like F4CG, Chromance, 2nd Dimension, cant remember exactly |
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LordNikon
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 42 |
are there any news about the bbs? i want call it ;) |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 476 |
to answer on the original question, i wouldn't have any problems with javascript. in fact it's a common thing these days and i'm prolly not paranoid enough to turn it off.
i never called a c*base board, as i never owned a modem for my c64; guess i just belong to the people that would just be interested in what it looks and acts like. |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Hey, you folks...
Don't know if you have noticed, but why go for a standard Java-scripted Web-BBS with C/G graphics when there suddenly is a possibility to do the thing for real? Unless you didn't know, Adam Dunkels (aka. Trident/Active) have made the communication between the C-64 and the net less a program with his new uIP-stack and Ethernet-cart. With some help from some gurus of respective area there would be easy to enable C-Base to communicate with the net. People which should be contacted to enable this would probably be Tao and Trident for writing/adapting the protocol to C-Base and to adapt a terminalprogram to work with the modded C-Base.
To sum it up; much of the work on this is allready completed with Tridents solution. Why not use it to create a REAL C-64 BBS, communicating through the web? What do you folks think? |
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Derision
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 69 |
I like it. Shouldn't be too hard to impliment, either. I remember that certain versions of Image had some kind of internet email function, so one could assume it can be done with C*Base. And I know that Pegasus/RPG was working on some kind of C64 server system, I believe using the ethernet cart. I'm not entirely sure how it was to be implimented... but it could definitely be interesting.
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
This idea even starts sounding interesting to me! |
