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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
How low one can get #2
Making money by stepping on the ppls back that made demos for free, for the scene ?
http://home.ngi.de/digitalmemories/buy.html
if you charge no more than DVD and postal costs I take my words back. Otherwise..... |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
:) only 10 euros.. our work must be worth more than that.. ugh.. |
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maestro
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 727 |
csdb could put a few dvd's together and charge that money could help the running of the site etc
i dont mind people selling if the money is going to good puposes (and if they want to make a few deposits into my bank account then im even more happy :) )
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
hein, yeah while the MUCH more work of the original authors worths 0 euros...
one DVD is MAX 2 euro, and postal cost 1 euro max,
they earn atleast 7 on each.
whish I could live on someone else's work for free. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
Oswald, would you really want that? That would mean you have to turn into an evil businesssuit, and you'd loose every dignity. And then you furiously hit a laughing tree with your Ferrari, ending up in a wheelchair, family waiting for you to die, so they can inherit the millions..
I'd stick to being a creative soul, let others ruin their Karma.. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
hein, that was just irony. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Good one Hein :) |
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V-12
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206 |
Some weeks ago one german guy wrote to me an email with the question if he can put my games onto his CD which he wants to sell for money. I told him that I don;t agree, because I did the games and released for free, shy someone wants to get the money for my free work ? All actions like this one should be banned. |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: Oswald, would you really want that? That would mean you have to turn into an evil businesssuit, and you'd loose every dignity. And then you furiously hit a laughing tree with your Ferrari, ending up in a wheelchair, family waiting for you to die, so they can inherit the millions..
I'd stick to being a creative soul, let others ruin their Karma..
:D |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
I see it like this... someone spends time creating a collection of carefully selected demos asking authors for permissions to publish the demos on a DVD which will be sold for "estimated cost". Then spends some time DVD doing some work around interface and stuff and finally after years starts to sell it. That would be quite right IMO. Question is if authors of the demos were contacted etc.. if not, then something is wrong there. Anyway gotta put that collection to "related" it's not a C64 release anyway.
P.S.: Special message for people who "know" c64.sk rules better than me. (the news will be put to related because I didn't receive those 100 eurobucks + 5 copies of DVD ;-)))))
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
Quote: I see it like this... someone spends time creating a collection of carefully selected demos asking authors for permissions to publish the demos on a DVD which will be sold for "estimated cost". Then spends some time DVD doing some work around interface and stuff and finally after years starts to sell it. That would be quite right IMO. Question is if authors of the demos were contacted etc.. if not, then something is wrong there. Anyway gotta put that collection to "related" it's not a C64 release anyway.
P.S.: Special message for people who "know" c64.sk rules better than me. (the news will be put to related because I didn't receive those 100 eurobucks + 5 copies of DVD ;-)))))
I'm still waiting for that e-mail..
On the other hand, I never asked permission to Hajime or Boris, but we (Bml) did win a few guilders to buy ourselves some steaks. Don't know about the other democreators mentioned on the DVD. For all I know, they're surfing the waves in Hawaii. Aloha to them... |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: I see it like this... someone spends time creating a collection of carefully selected demos asking authors for permissions to publish the demos on a DVD which will be sold for "estimated cost". Then spends some time DVD doing some work around interface and stuff and finally after years starts to sell it. That would be quite right IMO. Question is if authors of the demos were contacted etc.. if not, then something is wrong there. Anyway gotta put that collection to "related" it's not a C64 release anyway.
P.S.: Special message for people who "know" c64.sk rules better than me. (the news will be put to related because I didn't receive those 100 eurobucks + 5 copies of DVD ;-)))))
creamd, half of any of the demos on the DVD was more work than the dvd itself.
if all the demo authors gave permission then its okay. But in this case I think most demo creators shares murdock opinion. |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
All of the creative work of any scener is automatically copyrighted material when released unless specified otherwise.
That's all I have to say about that. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: All of the creative work of any scener is automatically copyrighted material when released unless specified otherwise.
That's all I have to say about that.
Exactly! That's how the law works. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: creamd, half of any of the demos on the DVD was more work than the dvd itself.
if all the demo authors gave permission then its okay. But in this case I think most demo creators shares murdock opinion.
DVD easier to do than demos. Maybe. Depends on how much work one gives to deail and interface while producing it. I would apprecaite work of someone who would create a decent collection of e.g. the best amiga demos on DVD as I don't have Amiga.
Authors giving or not giving permission, that depends on them, important is to ALWAYS ASK for that PERMISSION. I think some demo-creators wouldn't mind if they were asked nicely. Murdock is known for extreme stands ;-)
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote: All of the creative work of any scener is automatically copyrighted material when released unless specified otherwise.
That's all I have to say about that.
So copying an effect - lets say, a DYCP or a 4x4 - is actually a copyright infringementation unless the creator of the original effect specifies otherwise?
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
@jailbird: actually, its not :) ripping the actual code, now that would be another thing. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote: @jailbird: actually, its not :) ripping the actual code, now that would be another thing.
But in a similar situation, as an example, when a china guy copies a similar look of a certain sneaker and names it "Nukee" or "Reebak", it's against the law, right?
Gosh, I don't get this at all.
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
However, DYCP and "Chunky Effects" are not trademarks... Anyone thought about registering these things?
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
Quote: However, DYCP and "Chunky Effects" are not trademarks... Anyone thought about registering these things?
Hurry!!!! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
creamd, the dvd in question havent asked for permission in atleast one case, according to hein.
anyway, being part of a society, and then making money out of the free stuff thats done for all members of the society for free... errhm..... khmm...
its not even according to groepaz kinda illegal, its sucking blood of the scene.
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
About time ppl start putting Copyright in their demos I guess then...This is just so lame, if making profit of the scene, simply fuck off.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
so - who is going to rip and upload ? |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
Good one, all those demos are available for download.. I don't understand the purpose of a DVD with demos on it anyway.
Besides, frankly I think they won't earn much with it, 10 euros isn't much, packaging is in my opinion the most expensive part of the release.
So, what if the creators get a share.. That will be like 1 cent max. per copy per person, because there are many creators involved. Why bother worrying about lost profits, or worrying about copyrights, this is a hackers scene after all. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
To be honest, I don't see the problem here. First of all, it's not like these guys will get rich off it. Sure, they could have asked for permission, on the other hand: just take it as a compliment if your work is included, and move on. I remember when my cousin told me he had bought a german 64 magazine with a demo by Cycleburner & me on its coverdisk, made my day.
And building on something Hein wrote: how many graphicians have drawn (copyrighted) pictures by famous artists? How many musicians have made covers of (copyrighted) real songs?
People in glass houses etc ..
By the way: a few years ago I bought a similair product with pc demos (in that case permission was asked though). I never ever watched it ;-) |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
It would have been nice if they presented it like they did down here:
http://plus4.emucamp.com/features/meet_the_family/
Atleast there you can find your way to the scene.
(and get it for free aswell..) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: creamd, the dvd in question havent asked for permission in atleast one case, according to hein.
anyway, being part of a society, and then making money out of the free stuff thats done for all members of the society for free... errhm..... khmm...
its not even according to groepaz kinda illegal, its sucking blood of the scene.
I don't expect that anyone of those guys advertising those 2 DVD's at c64.sk asked permission from anyone. And I wouldn't wonder if they didn't. Copyright law isn't taught at schools.. anyway -> www.whatiscopyright.org |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: It would have been nice if they presented it like they did down here:
http://plus4.emucamp.com/features/meet_the_family/
Atleast there you can find your way to the scene.
(and get it for free aswell..)
Uh, that sure does sound kinda creepy, mister.
Aint this the scene right here? Pretty durn sure it's free, don't rightly know what point yer makin'. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Quote: Uh, that sure does sound kinda creepy, mister.
Aint this the scene right here? Pretty durn sure it's free, don't rightly know what point yer makin'.
What I ment is that there are actual links down there.
Click the Yellow `demo - group(s)´ list anywhere and you end up here at CSDb.
Unlike the DigitalMemories from post 1,which gives no related information at all.
(Is my English really that hard to understand?)
And ofcoz it´s free..
I hate copyright! |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Language barrier ;) |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 333 |
Concerning putting a Copyright into a Demo:
At most Parties it is not valid to "copyright" the Demos you release, you have to make them Freeware to release them at a Competition.
However, I think DVDs with Demos on it are really great, and there is no moneymaking or bloodsucking involved, just People who like C64Demos and DVD-Authoring.
@slarti:
No, this is not the scene. This is a Forum where some Scenefolks hang around (and some lamers..)
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
only because its freeware it doesnt mean it isnt copyrighted :) in many countries its actually impossible to completely give up your copyright (as in the american "public domain" distribution model). |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: only because its freeware it doesnt mean it isnt copyrighted :) in many countries its actually impossible to completely give up your copyright (as in the american "public domain" distribution model).
Exactly. Although it's called "author's rights" here. Author can't give them up, but he can e.g. give/sell "distribution rights" etc. |
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Shortcircuit
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 12 |
Hmmm. I kinda think it's easier to pay 10,-, because when u live in Turkey like i do where high bandwith costs are skyhigh (well at least for us)and u have to compile the whole dvd. Well i like to do it but 4.7 gigs of c64 stuff? Guess could not find the time even if i leave my job and wife.So i rather pay that 10,- and stay mentaly healthy. And the copyright? Hell everything was released for free only the scene law, that you cannot ue code, music or gfx without crediting the creator can be taken in account. And like i said authoring a Dvd with c64 stuff is a bitch of a job, so don't the auther deserve a Euro or 2 for the work? |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
@ShortCircuit: It´s not 4.7Gb of C64 stuff.
They probably recorded the demos while they were playing,so it´s more like a movie.
If they didn´t use a real C64,the quality might actually be not that good.. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Shortcircuit, the purpose behind releaseing demos for free, is not that someone else can make money out of them, mkay? You can find a few demos infact declaring this.
low on bandwidth? the actual demos are max 400kb, download and enjoy them on the real thing (or emu). for FREE, you dont have to pay a cent. |
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Shortcircuit
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 12 |
@Tch Point taken.
I stand with what i wrote if the dvd is made of converted c64 files. Otherwise it's pretty lame. Why the hell would i want to watch them in *.Avi formt?(if they use divx)It's the cllection of the files that is important for me. |
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Shortcircuit
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 12 |
@Oswald
I ment if i want to dowload c=64 stuff with the idear to catalog and burn them to a Dvd which means a hell of a lot of files to download, and the here the bandwith is bloody limited. I have a max 3 gigs.So tht would be a really shity job. I don't mean them to me a real profit, just earning for giving service. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
I`m almost certain the DVD contains recorded demos.
There are 16 demos on the DVD.
Lets say every demo is 2 disk-sides (1 D64=171 KB).
That makes 5472Kb!!
Think twice before you pay! ;) |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Hmm,. I didn't knew about these collections. I once bought MindcandyDVD and didn't considered it like someone getting money from someone elses work. In fact that one was produced from some sceners, which was like a documentary to present the scene to the public. There were also special features inside, interviews with some old PC sceners, unfinished demos never seen before, quite cool features and an extra option to hear documentary while watching the demos, with either funny or interesting comments. It was from motivated sceners with the purpose of presenting the scene to a greater public. And it was all recorded, something to watch on your DVD-player ;)
About these DVDs here I don't know. I like teh covers, but if it's just the demos with no more features, if it's not like the documentary way it is in MindcandyDVD, then this sucks :P. Cause you could just download watch the demos in the emulator or the real thing and there is nothing else interesting to watch there.
Does anyone know more about the contents of those C64 DVDs?
p.s. I guess I'd better wait for the incoming Mindcandy DVDs which will present the Amiga and C64 scene.
p.p.s. And yes, permision is due. Mindcandy got the permission for the demos iirc and they even featured some interviews/discussions in the demo commentary, with some of the older scene farts they got in contact with! |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
And a small question:
What happens when you want to release a DVD with a collection full of demos, not 10 specific recorded demos but just about everything (thousands of demos)? Do you have to ask just about everyone for the permission? Or does the scene have to generally agree with you? E.g. the Hornet Archive CDs that featured all PC demos and other stuff from 1987 to 1995 (and second volume from 1996 to 1998). The guys who owned the Hornet Archive (www.hornet.org) are the same behind the MindCandyDVD. Since they had the collection of just about every demo they could get and an archive for sceners to download demos, they thought it would be nice to put them in a CD, so that people who didn't have internet access could get them all at once by buying the CD. This was usefull for the scene and also helped into making the scene more known to people who didn't have internet connection or weren't aware of it.
I don't know. Maybe if you want to present few demos in a DVD recorded, you have to take permission. But with big collections downloaded from an archive? Weren't there CDs with freeware public domain/shareware in the market once ago? I see these actions mostly as a way to spread your work, not purely as a motive to make money.. |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
The creative digital arts are not in the public domain, you'll have to wait. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
optimus, so the work involved in demos doesnt worth a cent, while the work of collecting demos has a right to be payed for ?
strange...
someone makes material for the scene - considered free stuff
someone collects material already done - considered payable stuff
hmm ?!? strange... |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
optimus, as for your 2nd post
the problem is not with asking permission. if you collect demos on a dvd, and release it for free u dont need for ask for permission, but things become different when you charge money for it. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
This is the E-mail I got from them months ago:
"
hello,
please help me! sorry, but only this e-mail i had found and
i don't know if it is good.
--------------------------------------------------------
we made a DVD of the best Commodore Plus4 demos in 2005,
and it was quite successful so we decided to make a new
one from the best COMMODORE64 demos.
The only things missing from it are some commentaries to
the demos.
SPHAERISTERIUM
we'd like to ask you to write commentaries as your demo(s)
was/were selected to be part of this collection.
Please let us know as soon as possible if you want to
join this project. (PLEASE JOIN !!!)
If you are interested in the C+4 DVD, log on to
http://plus4.emucamp.com/features.php?id=9
for more information.
we thought yours subtitles should include information
about technical details or members of the group but the
main point is to make it interesting. OF COURSE YOUR
COMMENTS SHOULD BE IN ENGLISH.
If you need the timeline for timing your comments please
write an e-mail to me and I will send it to you with
details on how many lines should write.
Thank You very much, and please answer me ASAP!
Lacoste/WLS
___________________________________________________________________________
Elégedetlen jelenlegi helyzetével, vagy csak egyszer?en váltani szeretne? Mi segítünk
a választásban! Több mint 50 000 állás Európa szerte. - http://www.jobpilot.hu
"
I never answered it, and never forwarded it. Still! according to the DVD cover there are subtitles to the demo created by the creators of the demo?!?
As some sort of comfort I can say that I'm lucky we didn't have a starfield effect because those doesn't compress very well in MPG2... :D |
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Shortcircuit
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 12 |
I don't know about the others but have to say that the idear of demos as avi is a bit disturbing. Because as u said Oswald the demos were coded and swapped for free. Ok it would be nice they ask permission, but don't u think it would it's nice when u can get a nice archive on dvd which was prepared with care? As Optims said some people can't download such a tremendos archieve. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
a, the dvd has about 16 demos recorded into video.
b, if you download the disk images this takes about 5 meg.
c, this is not a tremendous archive
b, if I spend _LONG_ months of work to entertain the scene for FREE, why is it ok for someone else to ask money for collecting that free work ?
Do you really DONT SEE thats there's no difference in doing a demo and doing a dvd ? If I would spread my demos on a DVD it would be okay for asking money for it, if I spread it on the net it is not okay?
You're falling in the trap thinking, that if someone's work is in a REAL material, it is ok ask money for, and if someone's work is just a file on the net, then it should be no money asked for. |
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Wtf is this? Some retard defending the right to sell C64 demos?
COOOL!
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
thank God, everything on csdb is still for free :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
now upload it already, where are those firstie-sceners when you need them? |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
BERT, where are you man? Stop feeding your pigeons, Ernie is selling crack to these youngsters, you have to stop him. |
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tecM0
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 40 |
Quote: hein, yeah while the MUCH more work of the original authors worths 0 euros...
one DVD is MAX 2 euro, and postal cost 1 euro max,
they earn atleast 7 on each.
whish I could live on someone else's work for free.
what a bullshit treat! osw&co. ... your all dont know how expensive it is to make a prof. DVD. so..STFU please. this is damn stupid.
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
tecmo, lighten us up |
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Nemezis
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22 |
I do strongly believe that contents of this DVD are NOT copyrighted and can be spreaded and copied by anyone ? Probably it is not possible to have copyrights to something that was created with use of materials without permission of authors.
I just wonder if creators of this DVD realise, that some ppl from C64 scene are now lawyers..? :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
wikipedia:
United Kingdom copyright methodology
British law states that an individual's work is placed under copyright law as soon as it leaves that person's mind and is placed in some physical form, be it a painting, a musical work written in manuscript or an architectural schematic.
Australian Copyright Law
Typically, a work must meet minimal standards of originality in order to qualify for copyright, and the copyright expires after a set period of time
USA Copyright Law
In the United States, copyright has relatively recently been made automatic, which has had the effect of making it more like a property right. Thus, as with property, a copyright need not be granted or obtained through official registration with the government.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Several exclusive rights typically attach to the holder of a copyright:
* to produce copies or reproductions of the work and to sell those copies (including, typically, electronic copies)
Hungarian law says that the author has copyright on his creation in the moment he created it. (automagicaly)
and it is not possible for the author to gave up his copyright.
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Nemezis
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22 |
Let's say that someone has an early, amator records of Pink Floyd, which were spreaded as not commercial, for friends and fans. I think he CAN NOT release and sell it as commercial CD without author's agreement. OR, if he sells it only taking costs of making copies, this stuff is still not copyrighted. This is what I was thinkig about writing upper message. I think that they can not put "copyright" on these DVDs. |
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Shortcircuit
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 12 |
Oswald, im not making myelf clear i guess..Or u don't want to understand me! Im just saying if somenone makes a dvd with c64 emu files and not does lame avi's with good navigation system etc then im willing to pay 10,- and like i said before for god's sake try to understand. With download i mean 4.7 gigs of c=64 emu files. not some stupid avi's worth 5 megs. And if you can recall wat i said before "it ould be nice if they ask for permision".Ofcoure the web is for free, thank god, but like i said don't have the time nor bandwith to download 4.7 gigs worth of c=64 emu files. Where i live that would cost me rond 1000,-. Believe it or not!
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Shortcircuit; Write me a PM and I got material for some 50 DVDs to send you, you can even design your OWN compilation.
5E Only....Im serious about this!
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Nemezis
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22 |
"it would be nice if they ask for permision". I'm afraid they have no right to release this without permision. Noone has right to use someone's tunes, gfx & code for commercial purposes without permision. Can I rip gfx from some PC-demo, use it in website project and sell ? Can I use someone's music as background for TV commercial without his permission ? |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Oswald: Of course I agree that your work is several times more worth (and at least more respected) than those people who do DVD collections. I just can't get it why you care so much about that incident? You do demos for fun, some people put some effort to make some DVD collections (Ok, much fewer than yours. Still,. e.g. there was a lot of work behind MindcandyDVD iirc, more than you'd think), not mainly for money which are still needed because of the package, but to spread the scene or make a nice nostalgic collection which they can watch on their DVD player. So, why you suddenly wake up and say "Hey! I could be making the money, which they are making with my hard work instead". But you never really started making demos for that reason ;)
And those who say videos are lame, yes they are. But perhaps those videos are for people who don't bother to plugin a C64 or emulator and might be interested to see how a C64 demo would look like. That was the philosophy of MindcandyDVD too (esp. for old PC demos that even sceners can't run properly anymore), to show a bit of the demoscene to some friends in some kind of documentary DVD without bothering with making the demo work or trying to find the real hardware. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2970 |
Yeah.. the maker of Meet The Family also put +H2K on the DVD. He tried to contact me but the mails didn't end up in my box, though. So in the end somebody else in Plush made the subtitles, but did not give explicit agreement about general publication. The demo was added to the DVD without me knowing or anybody of the producers having given explicit agreement.
As soon as i found out i wrote several furious mails to the DVD maker, mainly because i don't tolerate the combination of
a) not having an explicit permission by the author
b) selling the DVD as commercial product
c) not uploading an image to scene.org or related sites.
In the last of his letters he said that "of course" one day the image will be available for download. Yet it's unclear whether that'll be an "official" upload or somebody loading up a DVD rip.
Shortened mail conversation:
Me:
Why not make an image of the DVD publically available?
You know that making money with demos (without their creators' consent) is considered lame?
DVD maker:
Well, maybe you are right, but I think it is not so lame, because everybody who sent me subtitles are accept this and it is not a big business, because the profit of one DVD is 0.16 EUR (because of the free copies and so on)
I hope you are not angree with me, because I wrote to Brix, and he wasn't against it.
Me:
Excuse me, but i AM angry with you.
Actually, the point is not the profit you make or not, but that you sell something that was never meant for selling by any of its producers, while not making it available to the public.
If you'd hold back that image until you covered your initial expenses for it, ok - but it seems like that's not your plan.
(Also, i'm not after royalties or shit like that, of course.)
About my demo - that Brix said ok does not count, as he only made minor stuff in the demo - that is, the hidden parts. Also i heard from other people whose work is featured on the dvd that they did not respond to your mail and that you also initially did not ask whether it's okay to put the demo on the dvd but rather, whether they could contribute subtitles. So it's not just my stuff that's on the dvd without an explicit permission.
Besides, i am not happy with the subtitles to my demo, and being asked properly, i could have provided my own or just said "no" at all.
See, i could actually take legal action against you, as this is simply copyright violation. You put stuff on a COMMERCIAL product without the producers' consent. But this step would do more harm than good to anybody involved, so consider yourself lucky.
Anyways, some people will sooner or later upload that stuff anyways, so i could as well shut up now and leave you in peace. But it's a question of principle.
It's sad that we have gotten to the point where adding disclaimers and license files is needed again, just like for amiga demos a while ago, or current pc demos.
DVD maker:
of course one day it will be downloadable... |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
I find it funny that guys in a scene based on copying other people's copyrighted work can get so bent out of shape when someone does it to them :) |
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Style, others....Its NOT ok to make money out of others work.
Cracking games was not meant for making money (to most). Making a stupid DVD is!
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Its a very grey area..... but generally I thought there was a healthy disrespect for copyright law around here... |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
If I give you guys 16 cents per sold dvd, will you shut up? ;)
This is not a commercial company trying to make money over 'our' backs, this is a bunch of c64 demo-fans trying to spread the gospel. And I applaud them for it. |
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tecM0
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 40 |
Quote: If I give you guys 16 cents per sold dvd, will you shut up? ;)
This is not a commercial company trying to make money over 'our' backs, this is a bunch of c64 demo-fans trying to spread the gospel. And I applaud them for it.
word! i totally agree with you. |
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Nemezis
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22 |
"this is a bunch of c64 demo-fans trying to spread the gospel" - COOL :) So I want to download this DVD and put it on my server to allow other ppl to download it, to spread the gospel. What's the URL ? I'm also thinking about selling DVD "Digital Relax" with PC demoscene releases (to spread the gospel ofcourse) but I'm not sure if I can sell it in my country, or only in Germany, coz seems that there is not copyright in Germany? Cool that there are ready-to-sell AVIs on Pouet. |
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Nemezis
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22 |
I also want to convert this DVD into DivX and sell it on all available for me auction servives for 3-4 EUR, to help in spreading the spirit. So, where can I download it ??? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053 |
Quote: If I give you guys 16 cents per sold dvd, will you shut up? ;)
This is not a commercial company trying to make money over 'our' backs, this is a bunch of c64 demo-fans trying to spread the gospel. And I applaud them for it.
I'm sure you yourself could find examples where you wouldn't be happy if someone mis-used your work of art. That why request for permission is necessary. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
This isn't mis-use. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 333 |
@style: piratescene != demoscene
@krill: You should ask the DVD-Maker to send you (and all +h members) a DVD with your Work. If he does, you can upload it, if he doesnt, let the police raid him.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Let the police raid him? Jesus .. Let the police raid all the owners of c64 ftp sites as well then, I'm pretty sure there are a few commercial games on those that shouldn't be there.
Guys please .. don't be bastards. Nobody loses money here, nobody makes money. The world keeps turning.
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TWR
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 187 |
Quote: Let the police raid him? Jesus .. Let the police raid all the owners of c64 ftp sites as well then, I'm pretty sure there are a few commercial games on those that shouldn't be there.
Guys please .. don't be bastards. Nobody loses money here, nobody makes money. The world keeps turning.
Indeed. |
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Shortcircuit
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 12 |
Thank God for you Dark Judge, finally someone making sense. But as you said the dvd authors are c=64 demo scene fans. But reality remains are we talking about copyright while the scene was created because of cracking and distrebute of them? |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: @style: piratescene != demoscene
@krill: You should ask the DVD-Maker to send you (and all +h members) a DVD with your Work. If he does, you can upload it, if he doesnt, let the police raid him.
Name me a single demo maker who doesnt have at least one pirated game. |
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Nemezis
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22 |
The law sees the difference between spreading copyrighted stuff for free and selling it. These DVDs have ISBN numbers, what means that sellers/distributors registered copyrights to themselves, without any permission of authors. It's like I would register Pink Floyd records as mine and sell their records. And I could say: "Hey, costs of my work as DVD-Recorder operator are huge, and I pay taxes, I don't earn anything, so don't be bastards, Pink Floyd. I'm your fan!". I'm not saying that the Police should take care of it (however could), but I'm damn surprised that authours even didn't get free copies, when this DVD is being sell in at last 2 countries now. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
just two questions,
- is the dvd downloadable for free ?
- why not ? they want to make money out of it ? |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
It's 7 Euros including shipping, please don't make such a fuzz around it. I've ordered one, lame as I am, and got order number #71. With all the work invested into mastering the DVD and production costs there's probably 1-2 Euros overhead from every sold DVD. Just enough for a few warm meals at the neighbourhood restaurant. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
My god, what a lot of fuss over nothing.
The hypocrisy is palpable. |
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Nemezis
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22 |
Order number #71 from them or from one of MANY other shops selling this DVD ? This DVD in now available in e-shops in .DE, .UK, .AT, also on Amazon.de . I believe this DVD 'll no be released to download, as it's strictly commercial and is copyrighted. |
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cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935 |
Quote: Let the police raid him? Jesus .. Let the police raid all the owners of c64 ftp sites as well then, I'm pretty sure there are a few commercial games on those that shouldn't be there.
Guys please .. don't be bastards. Nobody loses money here, nobody makes money. The world keeps turning.
FTP ? what's that
I deny everything !
:)
Niels
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote:
I believe this DVD 'll no be released to download, as it's strictly commercial and is copyrighted.
everything that is created is copyrighted, unless stated otherwise :) |
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Nemezis
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22 |
But noone register a game crack to get ISBN and copyright ;) And this DVD is nothing else but stolen art with linked intro+subtitles. |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
>- is the dvd downloadable for free ?
>- why not ? they want to make money out of it ?
That's a good point, yet I'd like to write my thoughts below:
Even MindCandyDVD is a commercial product that is not allowed to be pirated. Yet, I really know that the authors behind it are dedicated sceners (The guys from Hornet archive). I don't think they were purely going for the money. I guess that in order to produce a DVD package with a nice booklet, they had to go commercial. Perhaps they could still have the DVD data downloadable for those who just care to burn it in a DVD, and only the people who would be interested for the cool looking commercial package would have to pay for it. But since they made a commercial agreement, I guess that's a problem.. |
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Roland
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 1 |
Hiho,
some word from my side :)
If somebody is doing an upload of the DVD, we (the makers of the DVD) won't say anything against that. feel free to do that!!! and everybody can download it for free! and if you like it, feel free to buy it and you'll get more than just the pure data (box,cover,booklet,nice labeled and professional pressed dvd ... no selveburned shit).
about the copyright.
ok, probably it was a mistake not to ask all the authors, but I have always seen my demostuff as public domain, and also the demos by others! (but it seems like others don't have the same opinion about that...their good right). I never complained about seening my work on other cds (e.g. the high-voltage cd by bod/talent or the fairlight-cd ...both were sold, too). and I think most of the scene dudes never cared much about a game copyright... so they should think the same way about there work. and as long as the authors don't loose money by it... what's the point?
And don't think we get those 7 out of 10 euro. hahaha..would be nice. but that's not how business goes. the retailers won't take it for more than 5 euro. the german organisation GEMA (collects money for the musicians) takes also a lot of money, and you cannot produce a dvd without permission by gema (in germany). then the production also costs a lot... so.. if I get 50 cent for each SOLD (not produced) dvd, I am a happy man! (and that's for sure not much compaired to the hours/days/weeks I spent on this dvd.... but who cares... I spent even more time on doing demos... also just for fun)
But of course we can learn by this!
WE WILL TRY to ask all (well, all is for sure not possible if you think on all musicians/gfxer/texter) authors of the demo for the 2nd DVD.
And I am not a guy gets pissed by some negativ posts.
I will also ask OSWALD for permission to use his (and his groupmates) work. And I say SORRY to all we didn't ask for the first one and were angry about that.
So, if you see the DVD, I hope you'll like it and think different... |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Case closed,
I hereby take back all my negative words.
Thanks Roland. |
