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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Cracked tools
Cracked (commercial) tools/applications (mainly from the start of the C64 era) should be filed under C64 CRACKS, not C64 TOOLS. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 847 |
A couple months ago I uploaded these two (as an example to the topic) :
Wave Logo-Editor
Nigel's Music Routine
These are tools but also have linked an ICS intro before them, so I'd take to your point of view that these should be under "cracks" ?
I've noticed some other ICS releases are under C64 tool category as well, even though they are just a cracking group. |
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The Overkiller
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342 |
Well, ICS put a lot of spreading intros. I'd bet these tools were not cracked but only introlinked for spreading. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
look up the definition of "crack" in the rules :) |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
I agree on the part of them having to be listed as cracks if they are actually cracked. However, this may make it a bit tricky when looking for tools... how about either dual catagories ( so it can be filed under C64 Tools *and* C64 Cracks )? or perhaps a C64 Cracked Tools catagory, although that goes a bit ( or byte, if you will ) too far.
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http://zomgwtfbbq.info |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
TAGs could solve this issue easily. |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
I'd rather chose the option to expand CSDb to commercial software and include original tool .t64, .crt and .g64 files. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
no |
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cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935 |
Quote: I'd rather chose the option to expand CSDb to commercial software and include original tool .t64, .crt and .g64 files.
Oh no please not... |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Oswald: \o/
Rough: /o\
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Quote: I'd rather chose the option to expand CSDb to commercial software and include original tool .t64, .crt and .g64 files.
I know it's opposed by most regular CSDB'ers. 8) But it's a good point to throw into the discussion from time to time. Opinions may change. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
yeah, whats the problem with commercial stuff. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: |
Quote: yeah, whats the problem with commercial stuff.
The scene defines what is part of the scene and what is not. Currently the scene has decided that commercial stuff is not part of the scene. This was debated in another forum here not so long ago. We are the scene remember. |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Quote: The scene defines what is part of the scene and what is not. Currently the scene has decided that commercial stuff is not part of the scene. This was debated in another forum here not so long ago. We are the scene remember.
I think Oswald was being sarcastic... .. .
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 895 |
Quote: The scene defines what is part of the scene and what is not. Currently the scene has decided that commercial stuff is not part of the scene. This was debated in another forum here not so long ago. We are the scene remember.
This statement is so highly phylosofical.. of the kind, I think, therefore I am.
Wowsers, i need a cup of coffee :D |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: The scene defines what is part of the scene and what is not. Currently the scene has decided that commercial stuff is not part of the scene. This was debated in another forum here not so long ago. We are the scene remember.
imho its not about whats part of the scene and whas not, its about a complete or incomplete database. if csdb can have 10 types of crack of the same game, then it can host the original aswell, its just as part of the whole story. Also how nice it would be to able to reach all cracked version from the original. |
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The Overkiller
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342 |
Quote: The scene defines what is part of the scene and what is not. Currently the scene has decided that commercial stuff is not part of the scene. This was debated in another forum here not so long ago. We are the scene remember.
Except when a commercial stuff is related to a scener ... |
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The Overkiller
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342 |
Quote: I think Oswald was being sarcastic... .. .
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http://zomgwtfbbq.info
I don't think so .... |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Quote: imho its not about whats part of the scene and whas not, its about a complete or incomplete database. if csdb can have 10 types of crack of the same game, then it can host the original aswell, its just as part of the whole story. Also how nice it would be to able to reach all cracked version from the original.
Full Acknowledgement. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
get a room you two :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
having moderators with the attitude like wreg or groepaz is priceless. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
same for users who start the very same discussion in every second thread :)
\o/ |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Sooner or later all resistance will fail and CSDb will expand to everything concerning 64, I bet on that. Hehehe |
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
(The discussion is still about cracked tools should be listed as Cracks or not. Not about if CSDB is going to list Commodore Tshirts and bumperstickers as entires)
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Technically cracked tools are also Cracks but I don't think they should be listed as such unless an option is introduced to tag them as tools.
I don't know about you, but I sometimes search for tools here.
It helps if the tools are tagged as tools. |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Actually cracked tools are commercial utilities like Paint Magic/Datamost (Jedi), FCopy 3/Thomas Tempelmann (Crackman) etc., it we see them as tool entries they shouldn't be in CSDb at all, as they are NON-SCENE RELEASES like the infamous games discussion showed yet the majority dislikes those added.
therefore these should be filed as crack (.crt of Music Maker or .d64 of Paint Magic original shouldnt according to the rules be here at all..they are not btw.)
then there's plenty of tools by scene people like Sinus Sculpt by 2000 A.D., Dirmaster/Faces etc.
therefore those should be filed as tools
pretty simple.
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
oh my..
Some of you are actually seriously considering to count cracked tools as cracks just for the sake of bending the rules and allowing them into csdb?
What an idea.. I see a whole revival of diskmags that were only popular because 1 chapter: the cracking charts..
I thought Id seen it all.. basic games getting points, seuck games getting point but now a whole new generation of action replay crackers can now, besides hunting for previously unreleased 80s games actually go hunt and introlink tools just to make sure that they can be admitted into CSDB and get 0.1 to 0.5 points (Im guessing here.. this calls for new standards) in the mags.
Wow.. brilliant (just incase someone doesnt read into the sarcasm
I never understood the non tolerance of commercial releases and personally I think they should be tolerated, but .. well, if its not a scene release it then should not be here like rough says.
I am so (?) looking forward to the next example of how scene is defined to a release as Im sure its only going to get more fun.. next up maybe.. intro linking commercial demomakers, perhaps ntsc fixing diskfilers/editors, I could go on forever, but that would be trolling ;)
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
Quote:
Some of you are actually seriously considering to count cracked tools as cracks just for the sake of bending the rules and allowing them into csdb?
so cracked tools aren't cracks? or what are you trying to say? :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: Technically cracked tools are also Cracks but I don't think they should be listed as such unless an option is introduced to tag them as tools.
I don't know about you, but I sometimes search for tools here.
It helps if the tools are tagged as tools.
another reason to have tags |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Bordeaux: I don't know what you are trying to tell us, your text is a bit confused.
In the first half of the C64 heydays commercial utilities definately had pretty good copy protections e.g. Copy Programs like Burstnibbler or some Data Becker software, so forget about your intro-linking stuff. |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
Rough.. sorry bout responding somewhat confusing.. i certainly recognise those (de-protected tools) as real cracks!
I guess I am just frustrated about all the consequences scene/non-scene causes in uploading and worried to see intro-linking of tools a new way of 'cracking in 2008' just to get stuff to the database.
That and a bit of 3am insomnia sarcasm ;) i'll try not to do that anymore.. hehe
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Quoting BordeauxI guess I am just frustrated about all the consequences scene/non-scene causes in uploading and worried to see intro-linking of tools a new way of 'cracking in 2008' just to get stuff to the database.
An old thread re-opened just to remind people to distinguish between cracked commercial tools and tools coded by sceners.
@Bordeaux: Of course it's not my purpose to open up a new wave of intro-linked tools. |
