| |
The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Completing unfinished game previews
Many excellent games have been created but never completed. Our scene is filled with genius talent. There are enough talented coders, musicians and pixel masters to finish unfinished previews. There are so many previews out there, probably over 1000. The original creators of such games already did the hard part. It would strengthen the scene if a team of sceners got together and completed the many previews there are. I will contribute to this project as well.
|
|
| |
Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
A long as it's damn good games - otherwise it's a waste of time if you ask me :-) |
| |
The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Dune II Preview is an example. |
| |
Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
yep, looks like a good example to me... I just wanted to be sure :-)
|
| |
iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3186 |
Quote: Dune II Preview is an example.
Are you joking? these are 2 static pics, nothing more.
Also, not having any source, you can forget someone will continue a game from a mere disass. |
| |
Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
well, I am asuming that the games to finish DO come with source codes and are more finished than just a few screenshots. |
| |
Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
To me it would probably be more interesting to work on new game projects, from scratch. |
| |
The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Quote: Are you joking? these are 2 static pics, nothing more.
Also, not having any source, you can forget someone will continue a game from a mere disass.
That's not true. In order to crack, NTSC fix, Pal fix, add trainers and levelpack, one must become familiar with the game needing work. Once you thoroughly study the code of a game, it is easy enough to add components, graphics, music and levels to a game, without using the original source code. |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Just don't touch Eye of the Beholder I. That baby is mine, my own, my precious... |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: That's not true. In order to crack, NTSC fix, Pal fix, add trainers and levelpack, one must become familiar with the game needing work. Once you thoroughly study the code of a game, it is easy enough to add components, graphics, music and levels to a game, without using the original source code.
erhm... its about finishing a game, not cracking. secondly have you studied dune II code ? anything else besides a picture displayer?:) |
| |
doynax
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 212 |
Getting a playable tech-demo up and running just isn't "the hard part", rather fleshing out and polishing a complete game is. And that's precisely reason you're seeing all those unfinished previews in the first place.
There's a lot of truth to the old adage about the last ten percent of a project taking ninety percent of the time. (Believe me, I should know...)
Actually, this is why I'm so impressed with Cadaver's game projects. MW4 may not be the most technically advanced or beautiful game out there but it's nevertheless got polish and playability in spades, and that's something hobby game developers seem to have a much harder time achieving.
And I suppose the type of amateur (that is to say unpaid) programmers who enjoy working on limited systems also have a tendency lose interest in a project once all of the hard technical challenges have been dealt with. |
| |
iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3186 |
Quote: That's not true. In order to crack, NTSC fix, Pal fix, add trainers and levelpack, one must become familiar with the game needing work. Once you thoroughly study the code of a game, it is easy enough to add components, graphics, music and levels to a game, without using the original source code.
go on then, impress me. =) |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: go on then, impress me. =)
wow, havent really read the second part of his post. really cracking is the hard part, adding stuff without the source code is a piece of cake :D |
| |
TNT
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 189 |
Quote: Are you joking? these are 2 static pics, nothing more.
Also, not having any source, you can forget someone will continue a game from a mere disass.
You can almost surely forget about someone continuing from disassembly :) |
| |
The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Oops! My previous post about Dune II preview corrected. I had only loaded it up once before, saw the screen, thought it looked cool and pressed the reset button. A few moments ago, I loaded it up and not needing to examine the code I realized that there is no game there, just two pictures. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
Quote:You can almost surely forget about someone continuing from disassembly :)
hehe, i am working on extending a game aswell. but i can say that working from a disasm is really no fun, and if you arent enjoying reverse-engineering (like i happen to do) then better dont even think about it, it will spare you a lot of frustration :) |
| |
Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
@Groepaz: let me guess.. Boulder Dash? ;-) |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
hell no =P |
| |
cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
I guess it makes sense if there's some unfinished game that creates so strong vibes in you that it's stronger than working on an original project. But I don't know ... a kind of a production-line approach to finish all 1000 would require robots ;)
And yeah, definitely agreed with doynax on the final polishing phase. Maybe a game idea will look theoretically awesome but once you get it mostly done, you notice the original concept doesn't work that well, and there's some major redoing necessary.
(but you'd be surprised how little polishing MW4 got, it was like 1 year of procrastination on the engine, then one summer of level-editing and then enemies/quests quickly added on top ;)) |
| |
The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Quote: go on then, impress me. =)
Groepaz: Thank you for saying that. A necessary trait to completing games is the enjoyment of reverse engineering. It is also the way that any successful NTSC fixer must be.
Cadaver: The concept is not for a bunch of robots to "mine" into the mountain of 1000 previews but rather as you said about being passionate about specific game previews.
Doynax: The key ingredients to making the last ten percent of a project complete is focus, passion and a fresh infusion of creativity.
iAN CooG: There is a particular game I am interested in finishing. I seek to have a SID created for it. There is a friend who lives near me, who never used a Commodore before. He is a very talented musician who makes fantasy RPG type music on some other type of platforms. He may become a new scener in the future when he learns how to use a SID composer. He already created music on another platform that when converted to 64, would make a fine addition to this beautiful unfinished game.
A project of completing games is a tall order. Plenty of patience is required. The end result will be gratifying. |
| |
Tao
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 115 |
Quote: Groepaz: Thank you for saying that. A necessary trait to completing games is the enjoyment of reverse engineering. It is also the way that any successful NTSC fixer must be.
Cadaver: The concept is not for a bunch of robots to "mine" into the mountain of 1000 previews but rather as you said about being passionate about specific game previews.
Doynax: The key ingredients to making the last ten percent of a project complete is focus, passion and a fresh infusion of creativity.
iAN CooG: There is a particular game I am interested in finishing. I seek to have a SID created for it. There is a friend who lives near me, who never used a Commodore before. He is a very talented musician who makes fantasy RPG type music on some other type of platforms. He may become a new scener in the future when he learns how to use a SID composer. He already created music on another platform that when converted to 64, would make a fine addition to this beautiful unfinished game.
A project of completing games is a tall order. Plenty of patience is required. The end result will be gratifying.
And if you smack a nice protection on it, I'd be happy to crack it once you're done :) |
| |
titan_ae
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 46 |
i can smell the unfinshed sourcecode of Hawkeye 2 somewhere...
i bet some ppl got promised to have a look at it. |
| |
The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Quote: And if you smack a nice protection on it, I'd be happy to crack it once you're done :)
Tao: good idea! I won't put any protections on restored games but you got me thinking of the posts in the forums previously about when TLR made some EOR protections for some files. The files were titled Crack me! and Crack me too!, respectively. I did once protect a multiload game, using some commercial protection program. As I remember, the routine in the main program went to track 36 to check for an error and then resumed to track 18 for the game to load. A very basic system. Perhaps I will append some code to a protection program and try to make something that is difficult to crack. |
| |
d0c
Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 186 |
the c64 needs more games thats for sure, to much one file demo coding going on if you ask me. its much cooler to see demo effects get a function in a game, it gives more meaning and entertainment value. i guess everyone know about gtw, alot of preview of unfinished goodies can be found here...
http://gtw64.retro-net.de/index.php
when it comes to protection on games, i think that is also a good idea, so the crackers get a challenge and competition :) |
