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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
Fred Gray's Hysteria inspired by Rondo Veniziano?
Recently I came across a clip on youtube from the german "Sendung mit der Maus" which was accompanied by some classical music which at once reminded me of Fred Gray's Hysteria #3 - one of the best tunes ever in c64 history. So I found out that the tv-tune is called "La Serenissima" from Rondò Veniziano (1981). I googled a little bit but couldn't find anything that covered the similarities of both tunes. Neither STIL has any comment. What do you think? Was Fred inspired by this one? Or is this just cold coffee and I didn't googled good enough?
Fred: http://www.tld-crew.de/c64music/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Fred/Hysteria...
Rondo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej_wRgBS5lI
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 476 |
not even close. but hey, welcome back. :) |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
well, really? Did I listen too much to Hannah Montana out of my daughter's stereo? |
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Stone
Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 171 |
I think they're pretty similar, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Fred was inspired by it. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
"Sendung mit der Maus" .. man, that does bring back memories. Used to watch it a lot as a child, when all we had were 2 Dutch television channels, and 3 German ones. |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
Not quite a smoking gun but similarities are there.
To me it is more probable that both tunes have the same, much older, classical origin. Doing disco/pop renditions of classical music was all the rage in those days.
And an educated musician like Fred Gray would of course have walked into the original at some point...
ps.
Used to watch "Sendung mit der maus" every weekend with my brother when there were indeed only 2 dutch and 3 german channels.
And everyone on holiday in germany thinking: were did those young kids learn how to speak all that german.
From TV man! :) |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
Btw: If anyone is interested in the actual episode, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl5jZ0dO5Rk
It's about manufacturing chocolate marshmallows...
To me it was the other way round. I went into the kitchen to receive the dutch top of the pops (or something similar) on friday with my portable b/w tv back in 1983 as they showed more videos than the german Formel 1... |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
To turtle,
it takes only to hit a chord of 3 notes, or 3 notes after another, to create a feeling, that is recognizable from some other music.
its not based on, it just has the same key elements.
it only takes 3 notes to do that.
you cant copy notes, only the spaces between them.
composers dont make notes, because all have the same ones.
the composer makes the space and beat between the notes, thats all.
:D
example:
D-C-D... C-A#-A-F-G
/MUSICIANS/G/Galway_Martin/Rambo_First_Blood_Part_II.sid #6
i bet a million nobody hears it, except a composer.
if you play the notes, and change only the last 3 notes and play in the right beat, it is in fact...
(change them to G-F#-G)
it's Bach's Toccata, the intronotes, the first thing you hear in that peace.
So, you cant steal notes, only the space between them, which gives the feeling.
similar, if you press 2 2-finger chords going upwards or downwards, 99% will say "which jarre tune is that" ?
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11302 |
Quote:if you press 2 2-finger chords
you cant form a chord from just two notes =P
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: Quote:if you press 2 2-finger chords
you cant form a chord from just two notes =P
In theory, no. In real life, all the time.
Jan: You're totally right about the space stuff :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11302 |
Quote:In theory, no. In real life, all the time.
no you cant. two notes form an interval, not a chord. and only because people mistake intervals for "Power chords" it still doesnt make them chords :) |
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booker
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 |
Quote: Recently I came across a clip on youtube from the german "Sendung mit der Maus" which was accompanied by some classical music which at once reminded me of Fred Gray's Hysteria #3 - one of the best tunes ever in c64 history. So I found out that the tv-tune is called "La Serenissima" from Rondò Veniziano (1981). I googled a little bit but couldn't find anything that covered the similarities of both tunes. Neither STIL has any comment. What do you think? Was Fred inspired by this one? Or is this just cold coffee and I didn't googled good enough?
Fred: http://www.tld-crew.de/c64music/MUSICIANS/G/Gray_Fred/Hysteria...
Rondo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej_wRgBS5lI
Sounds to me simple: Gray covered Venziano. :)
This is not an alone example in the C64 game music history.
Both tunes are just great! |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: Quote:In theory, no. In real life, all the time.
no you cant. two notes form an interval, not a chord. and only because people mistake intervals for "Power chords" it still doesnt make them chords :)
Even theorists are divided considering that as far as I know. If you wish, we can continue the "no it's not - yes it is" game in PM and release the result in a demo later on ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11302 |
there really is no doubt about that in music theory either :) |
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booker
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 |
There's a smart solution to the war about that one - ASK FRED! :)) |
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GT
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308 |
Not only is the basic similar, also the change at 0:56 is about the same as in Hysteria. So there's a big chance that Fred Gray was inspiried by this. |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271 |
I am really sure I posted something about the pop industry getting into the c64 scene with our heros back then and nowadays artists sampling c64 use stuff in their music and so on... the endless loop of most we hear see and feel around us today... the cycle of life... now and then someone puts in a nop or two and think abit and it comes out abit different. That is evolution probably...
PAL |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Did you folks miss that there actually exists a straight out cover of La Serenissima by Rondo Veniziano on the C-64? Incase you did, check out Ashley Hoggs wonderful Classical 2 tune. |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
In my opinion that Ashley Hogg cover is quite a good example for what Jan Harris said. The mood of the original La Serenissima, that dramatical, elevated feeling could not be transported in Ashleys version. This one is less dynamic. Although the notes are the same the feeling isn't. Hysteria is rather similar to La Serenissima in that case. The feelings match.
And, I didn't intend any finger wagging towards Fred. That's for sure!
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Stop the nitpicking :)
more than one note = chord
we say this so all can understand
2 notes = interval, yes correct, but regular people never heard of this, which is reason we just say chord :D
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11302 |
hooray for accepting stupidity. next time you tell me "we call it ROM so everyone understands! who cares if its completely wrong when talking about a diskimage!"
btw, i learned the "a chord has 3 notes" in primary school, just like everyone else of our age should have. (and if they didnt, i am very sure they learned it later).
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
call it what you want, just as i do :D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11302 |
yeah lets forget proper terminology ... everyone should call anything what they want. it will surely help communicating properly a lot!
stupidity now! |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 434 |
\o/ for groepaz: it took him just a 20 years to accept ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11302 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZalC8kwl3QY \o/ |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZalC8kwl3QY \o/
Vote for APPD! Fantastic! :D Hahahahaha! |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 434 |
Quote: Vote for APPD! Fantastic! :D Hahahahaha!
I did! |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na3EI8VGI7k&feature=related
mmmm...
Should we really vote for or except apologies from a guy with the pedo-bear on his desk...
:)
ps.
Always great to see how a perfect ordinary forum thread can suddenly turn into a nice old-fashiond row between Groepaz and Jan Harries.
:)) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Groepaz and me are just incompatible :D |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
You certainly strike a different chord eeeh interval eehhh octave eeehh I don't know anymore!
Maybe we should ask Rein for a fatwa on this? :) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
A chord has to have at least three unique notes. Two notes form an interval or a so called 'fractual chord'. Case closed. |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
Oh Linus. I love it when you're strict and ferm like that.
However.
To be scientific about it...
The very basics of a chord ALWAYS consists of the original note and the two first harmonics above it. That is the primordial definition of a chord. However. It is allowed to diminish a note or break the chord. And then in some cases the diminished note can end up at a note already in the chord or when you break-up a chord and transpose it so far that the higher note(s) reach the next octave it isn't regarded as part of the original chord anymore and has to be split up. Therefore in some cases it is possible to have two-note chords. Musically useless but possible... (use arpeggios instead!)
(source: "how music works..." ITV 2008) |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
...are you STILL arguing about that...?!?
Awwww....
YES, IT IS. |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
So, due to the thread turned upside down. How 'bout some chord or interval demo? |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Nah, the subject is too sore :) |
