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Kenho
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 26 |
JCH, q & a
As i posted in the Sidcompo3 thread at c64.sk i wanted to transfer the JCH discussion to this messageboard. I hope people which are newbies (like me) in JCH post questions here and i really hope that some of the more advanced users reply to the questions. Hopefully this thread can lead to a JCH faq for Dane to put in his new (soon to come) pack of newplayer.
It would be nice if someone can explain certain things about the program in a more simple way than the "manual" that comes with it. For example, the tables in the program. How to make a simple sound, a simple drum etc. These examples can later on be used as examples in a tutorial. Examples is often the best way to learn. Now i´m off to unpack Danes tunes and steal all his instuments :-) LOL
Bye! |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Great! The pack that Kenho is talking about is an upcoming release from me with an updated version of the editor, packer and players. At the time of writing two players are slated for release - one economic version designed to be low on r-time but allow for more flexibility than NP19. The other one is more of a much expanded version of NP20.g4. If anyone has suggestions or ideas for useful features, send me a private message or mail about it. And I would be very grateful for some help with docs later on. |
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A Life in Hell
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 204 |
i'm curious, dane, do you have a "bulletpoint list" of what's new in your player from np20? |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
- improved handling of arpeggios (possibility to control arpeggiospeed, pulse, filter, detuning etc. from arpeggio table)
- redefined instrument table with individual hard restart for instruments as well as optional pulse/filter
- extended effect table (filter control, change splitspeeds, set pulse/filter etc.)
- up to 4 splitspeeds
- a less rastertime consuming vibrato routine |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
ahem, I've heard a lot of JCH-depacker in the SIDCOMPO3 thread at c64.sk but I didn't find it on my way through all my c64-links... |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Ah, you need the DEPA? Ah, Dane, help us out here, willya?
Made by Syndrom, and i'm not sure it's officially spread. |
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Kenho
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 26 |
The depacker can be found in the JCH pack that exists out there (files section at lemon64 for example) , check the utlis disk, there you have a program called "jch-dpck 1.7/syn" . By looking at the filename i think it is by Syndrom |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
Thx, Kenho!! |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Congratulations on a fine tune in Sidcompo 3, Turtle. I hope you found the depacker by now. Or else, let me know if you'd like me to mail it. |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
Dane: Thanks for the regards. I think it's just pure fun to contribute something to a still vital c64 scene that other people appreciate, after all these years. According to the depacker: I found it. But due to the amount of Goattracker tunes in the top rankings of SIDCOMPO3 I hesitate and think it over if I should really start making tunes in JCH... ( uuuuaahahhhahahah ;-) ) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
lol |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 293 |
I'm still waiting for a new converter to arrive for my PAL C64 before I can compose proper tunes with JCH. (Bah - 10,000 plagues on the video/hz gap!) In the meantime I suppose I'm stuck playing with it in NTSC.
Does anyone have any suggestions for common sounds to be produced? How about guitar and banjo sounds? I assumed there would be one instrument mimicing the strings being plucked, and another mimicing them being strummed... I'm not sure how to construct them in JCH though. Anyone care to give me some pointers? Also, in the compo tunes, I noticed some really nice low and smooth bass lines, but I can never get my instruments not to sound like "plunk plunk"?!? |
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Akira
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 52 |
Six: Yer gonna have a field day composing in NTSC and later passing it onto PAL :P Happened to me on the sidcompo 3, I had to convert the tune to something somewhat acceptable on PAL, otherwise most people would have heard absolute bollocks.
I recommend you to wait a bit more perhaps, if you do decide to do your thing on a PAL C64. For now I am stuck on NTSC because my SX64 is NTSC and I'm not gonna haul a C64+1541+monitor to live sets.
Oh the plunk thing at the beginning of all instruments
... I'd like to hear some tiips for minimizing it. I think it's a cybertracker caveat or some NTSC thing probably. Will try CT today in my pal 128. |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 293 |
Honestly, I can use the tracker the way things are, it just bugs me not to see the right colors. (Still waiting on my converter from Scancom)
I think I'll give it some time this evening trying to make some nice instruments, so if anyone has any tips for working with JCH, I'd certainly appreciate them.
Otherwise, like Kenho, I suppose I'm stuck depacking other composers tunes and biting instruments.
(off to ineptly make plonk plonk blatt noises) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
There's nothing wrong with looking at what others have done in order to figure out how to do it yourself. I'm hoping to have docs for you soon, but til then I suggest you keep examining whatever you come across. |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: |
akira, been there. i've dragged 2 c64s and 2 screens for a liveset. i learned from that experience. =) |
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Akira
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 52 |
Quote: akira, been there. i've dragged 2 c64s and 2 screens for a liveset. i learned from that experience. =)
I salute you dalezy. I'm spoiled now, ever since i got my notebook. My audio set is not called the "pocket audio set" for nothing :D. Ok, you can't stick an SX64 in a pocket, but you get the gist (iBook + GB + SX64). |
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Kenho
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 26 |
hello again!
I have now produced some sounds and stuff but i need to know the commands in the "super slide table" (x command). I think it is described in the text for player version 18 or something but i have not got this text.
Another thing. When you are finished with a "track" like 8001 can you ... "shrink" it again so you only see the 8001 in the pattern table and not the notes?
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
There's no way to shrink it - you just keep scrolling down - or use f5 to scroll from track to track.
About those sxx-commands...
s00-1f - Slide up
s20-3f - Slide down
s40-5f - Change arpeggiotable pointer
s60-6f - Vibrato (like 32, 33)
s90 - Set new SR-value
se0 - speed
sf0 - volume
I might be wrong about speed/volume but heck, I never use them! :) Anyway, this table will be prette much redefined once that darn pack is ready for release. Hope it helps, though. |
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Kenho
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 26 |
Thanks Dane!
The reason for "shrinking" is that i think you would have a better overview of the song that way. i.e you should have an option to actually show the notes or just pattern number.
so when you have tracked all your patterns you can show them in shrinked mode (sequencer mode :-) ??) .
Just a thought.
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
To not have an overview of a track-table is not a feature that could be included in a player, but something you'd have to mod the editor to achieve. Shouldn't be too hard to do, since the track-table would be yet another pop-up window and I figure it have to be placed somewhere in the player memory. I really miss this in the editor aswell, and it'd be nice with a highlighted scroll along or sth in it. .-) Something for you and Iopop to have a look on, eh, Dane? :-) |
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Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
If you're using patterns with different lengths that shrink mode suddenly isn't as simple anymore. |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
I'm going to have to think about this. The 'shrink mode' would then be a separate screen or pop-up window BUT I honestly really don't want to kamikaze my way through JCH's editor source if I can avoid it. Hmm. |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
Quite interesting that I'm mentioned as designated coder for something I have completely no knowledge about at all. :) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Well, Henrik, this is hardly the first time, is it? :-)
And as always, I know only one person beeing able to make wonders with any tool, and that person is normally beeing the first for me to ask for anything. Ah, you know the score, etc. :-) |
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Kenho
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 26 |
I´m actually getting JCH to sound good now. Thanks to everybody who have helped. Now i´m going to make some tunes.
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: |
kenho, let's hear your output =) |
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Kenho
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 26 |
Be patient, I will surely rock your socks off in the future :-) LOL |
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Kenho
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 26 |
Quote: Be patient, I will surely rock your socks off in the future :-) LOL
-deleted- |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: |
what about the adsr-settings. i have the feeling the attack reacts way too fast. naive as i am i thought both of my sids are broken, but the same problem appears when i use jch in vice as well, is there any way to fix that, i.e. make it more accurate? |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
Reacts too quick? This is mostly hardware that creates the issues. It's often noticable with multispeed speed with clicks or sounds not playing with expected ADSR. This what you mean? |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: |
i was talking about singlespeed tunes .. well, i already thought of it as a hardware problem, but then again i've heard other tunes with a really smooth attack, so i'm kinda stuck there. (then again i think those tunes were done directly in the monitor, where the author had total control about what he's doing =) |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: |
(i suck at explaining things :)
><
with 'reacts too quick' i meant that i.e. an instrument with an attack setting of lets say 6 has a real short attack duration until it reaches it's normal decay or release point. and on top of that it overrides the actual DR-settings and plays on full volume for a few miliseconds, until it goes back to its intended volume.
i hope that was a bit more of an in-depth explanation =) |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
Some if the ADSR settings can only be made to have effect after a the gate bits goes from 0 to 1. Some other things is they can be heard staight away if decreasing (I think sustain) but not if you increase the sustain. It's something like that. I can't remember where all this is though.
some other issues can be associated with hard-reset effect. Takes a while for the SID to clean the ADSR outut and you can get cracks, or a sound that suddenly plays wrong volume and stuff.
ADD: Dane, Jeff and so forth would know more about this, along with Glenn and many more. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 462 |
Dalezy: that's a normal behaviour. Attack time could be described as time needed to achieve full volume point. If you want to avoid it, there's a trick: before the volume reaches its highest point during attack phase, clear the gatebit. It works beautifully, provided there's a nonzero release value (I'd recommend 9 or A for short sounds or F for continuous, long ones). Or so I think. |
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Wisdom
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 90 |
Just for the record; if I ever get time for it, I will release my own JCH packer/depacker utilities with their source codes someday. These were coded from scratch when I had no packer or depacker (just a plain Ed v2.53) back in 1993/1994.
Apparently, my packer is able to pack those tunes that cannot be packed correctly by JCH's own packer. It already helped a few fellows in their releases. So, in case you stumble across such a situation, drop me a mail and I'll send you the packer.
The depacker also behaves like a converter, in which you can convert, for example, a 14.g0 tune to 20.g4 or vice versa. (Song data only, of course. You have to manually correct the table/sound data.)
The reason for not releasing them now is just the cosmetic changes they need, because they were designed for my own use, thus having not-so-fancy user-interfaces.
By the way, hellos to Dane, Stryyker and Twoflower. It's been a while, huh? :-)
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G-Fellow
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 103 |
Hi all ! 8)
I use the Newplayer v3.04, the last release from JCH 20.G4 I think.
When u finished with the programming, can you put a full demo sound table in? ( from 00-1f ) Is easier for those guys who want to make fast a demo Tune. Ok you can rip some sounds from older vibrants tunes, but in the Newplayer v3.04 can´t you load soundtables in....
Greets, G-Fellow/Civitas |
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Intensity
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 337 |
Hey ppl,
Anyone has those JCH-Stuff from Dane? I need worktunes of double-speed-musics and a multi-speed-player of JCH. Have never created multi-speed-tunes, thus I'd need some quick hints about this feature. BTW, docs are welcome, I use JCH only since recently. Three wishes in one, but third time is a charm. ;)
Thanks in advance for every help.
Send those files to arman_behdad@no.spam.web.de please.
BTW, already posted Dane about it, but he seems to be in vacances. |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
ah yeah... ripping sounds... the road to success! sigh...
:-) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
The complete source code for JCH editor is released years ago, why dont you just fix it to your needs ?
This editor can use a good workover, or use SDI instead, built on the same tracker-system, but it's much easier to use, and has far better player. |
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Metal
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 18 |
SDI easy to use? I must be getting old.. ;) Btw. Syndrom actually did a 20.g5 for the JCH Newplayers, but I cant remember what he did with it. The unpacker-util by Syndrom was not on the "official" Newplayer-release disk by JCH. But I'm pretty sure Syndrom did get permission from JCH to release it.. |
