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grennouille
Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 222 |
I want to start composing music
so please what is the best and simplest tracker for a newbie like me? |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Hard to say, really. It always turns out that people have quite different taste in music editors. :-)
But perhaps Goattracker might be something.
SDI editor
JCH editor
John player
etc
etc
The list is quite long. :-)
Wait a bit and see what other people recommend.
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 840 |
Quote:Wait a bit and see what other people recommend.
Bull-Shit! ;) |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1641 |
The first two ones mentioned by Jeff does indeed seem to be the two most mainstream ones in these days, so try those and see if you like them. They are certainly capable of spitting out some nice sounds and tunes, so its not like you are missing out on something if you go for one of them. Both are still somewhat maintained, which may be a benefit in case you run into some weird bug. Never used any of them myself though (although I have some vague memory of having a quick look at a quite early version of SDI some day quite long ago by now). JCH used to be quite popular, but I can't say that I know many people that still use it. John Player is kind of nice, but more limited. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
In the end, the results aren't solely dependent on what editor you use. |
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grennouille
Registered: Jul 2008
Posts: 222 |
Thank you all I will try using Goattracker to makes some sounds first and eventually some music! http://supersole.net/blog/post/99-learning-goattracker-2-patter..
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 460 |
goattracker, in its current form, may not be straightforward enough. i would recommend starting with odintracker instead. even if just for the sake of practice (huge rastertime & memory usage). if it wasn't for that application, i would probably never make any c64 music, so there.
Odin Tracker 1.13
but of course, if you're smart enough to begin the adventure with goattracker 2.69, go for it. and thank god it exists. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
The built in help in GoatTracker (F12) is invaluable. I guess OdinTracker is easier to learn, but the results are much worse, and I don't really know how much C64 specific knowledge you can carry over from OdinTracker to other editors. |
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Archmage
Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 185 |
If it's not important to you to do your music on real hardware, I would go with Goattracker. Jump into the fire instead of dancing around it. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: goattracker, in its current form, may not be straightforward enough. i would recommend starting with odintracker instead. even if just for the sake of practice (huge rastertime & memory usage). if it wasn't for that application, i would probably never make any c64 music, so there.
Odin Tracker 1.13
but of course, if you're smart enough to begin the adventure with goattracker 2.69, go for it. and thank god it exists.
Learning a tool that youre not gonna use in the end, coz frankly, odintracker is completely useless, is surely a waste of time :D |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Jan: I wasn't going to use future composer, soundmonitor,rockmonitor or other shitty editors later either, but did start with those aswell as others :-) |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
Since all the useful editors let you interface more or less directly with the SID, I'd recommend to start with reading and at least trying to understand APPENDIX O from the C64 Programmers Reference Guide.
It won't make you any better as a musician, but it will help you understand what all those hex numbers in the editors actually mean.
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MC
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 71 |
Quote: If it's not important to you to do your music on real hardware, I would go with Goattracker. Jump into the fire instead of dancing around it.
It is imporant to do your music on real hardware.
Not any SID emulation comes even close to the real thing! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11296 |
seeing how probably more than half of the "top" musicians use GT, i cant agree with that anymore :) quite the contrary is probably more like it: just like an emu in general is enough for most practical coding now, the sid emulation is good enough for most things.
as to the original question: it all depends on how much experience you have with the SID, and trackers in general - imho. personally i still think the soundmonitor editor rules (although the replayer sucks, no doubt). its kinda limited, but leads to results quickly (and there is a good doc on it too). i've had much less luck with futurecomposer when trying to do some tunes back in 1988, that one was just cryptic and no docs either =) and stuff like JCH or SDI is certainly a bit too much for a complete beginner, its easier to understand some basic principles in a simplier environment, imho. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Or just grab an editor that sounds most promising,
has sufficient demotunes to learn from and try to get a hold of someone via irc who you can drive insane with your questions.
That's what i did (hi glenn!).
I didnt have any clue about the inner workings of the SID (still dont).
It's a long and painful journey, there's no way around that.
Though its debatable if what i produce has anything to do with music, so dont take my word for it :-D
As to the Emu vs Realthing question.
If you have the hardware to do your stuff on, by all means do it (assuming a c64 native editor).
If you keep it to 8580 and prefer the convinience of the emulator (snapshots, fast and easy) then emu isnt that bad.
And as mentioned before, plenty of composers use emulation these days.
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Get a decent editor (anything from the list Jeff posted earlier) and just do it. Sort of worked for me :) |
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FATFrost
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211 |
I tried out a few editors, and found most quote hard to understand as I don't know much about the Sid chip, I now use GT for my experiments as it runs on mac and pc and it's quite easy to use, has some great demo tunes and is able to save as Sid or prg executable files.
I still cannot make anything that sounds like a song though, but that's because I'm a slacker and not GT's fault! ;) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: Jan: I wasn't going to use future composer, soundmonitor,rockmonitor or other shitty editors later either, but did start with those aswell as others :-)
That was back then Jeff, when there weren't so many editors.
Now its 20 years later, and we have seen and tried a lot.
Yes i did 1 tune more in soundmonitor, 2 years ago, but that to relive the old days, for fun, and well the tune came out of it.. :D |
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booker
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 |
Quoting MC
Not any SID emulation comes even close to the real thing!
Erm, I did a tune for Silesia Party last year on Vice with 6581 R4AR 3789 and to my surprise it played exactly the same on Rafs real C64 (with also same chip rev) we use for old sid compos at the party.
As to the answer to your question Grenouille - the best editor is the one you get comfortable with. :) Although if you're looking for a modern capabilities ile. flt type change within the table, pointers to the tables in the pattern, tracker style pattern display then GT is a good option. Has some annoying limits but which one hasn't?
Also check out new editor upcoming from Jeff - perchaps even on X party - if not at this one, then at some of the frothcoming hopefully :D His old one (X-SID) is also worth to look at ;) |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Try this old thread and you'll see that it has all been said before.
Or this one on how to start composing, but better is perhaps Adam's thread, as he has the exact same question as you.
If you want to know what NOT to use, you can read it all here.
Hell, isn't the search a wonderfull tool?! |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1641 |
@Mace: Searching is not necessary when people like you list all the search hits. :) |
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encore
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 66 |
I'm also quite new to composing on the SID, although I've used trackers for 15 years (mostly Screamtracker 3, Impulse Tracker 2 and Renoise). I remember trying to compose on the C64 in the late 90's using Future Composer 4, but I just couldn't get creative with it. Seems I wasn't alone, when I read the last thread Mace linked to. :)
For now, I found out that using a combination of Goattracker 1 and 2 works best for me. Goattracker 1 is easier to get going with the tune and I love to be able to use the arpeggio-effect. Then in GT2, I can refine all the sounds to a greater extent (and it creates those arpeggio-wavetables and speedtables for me automatically) ;) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
6581 R4AR 3789 in VICE is 95% close to my C64, thats why i use that model. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Quote: I'm also quite new to composing on the SID, although I've used trackers for 15 years (mostly Screamtracker 3, Impulse Tracker 2 and Renoise). I remember trying to compose on the C64 in the late 90's using Future Composer 4, but I just couldn't get creative with it. Seems I wasn't alone, when I read the last thread Mace linked to. :)
For now, I found out that using a combination of Goattracker 1 and 2 works best for me. Goattracker 1 is easier to get going with the tune and I love to be able to use the arpeggio-effect. Then in GT2, I can refine all the sounds to a greater extent (and it creates those arpeggio-wavetables and speedtables for me automatically) ;)
so... where are the tunes ? :) |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
The most straightforward ones I've seen so far were Odintracker, John Player, Music Studio 2 or the lil' bro' of GoatTracker: Ninja Tracker.
Are you new in composing in general or just with SID? |
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MC
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 71 |
I heard 'Voice tracker' has a REALLY good player routine! ;)
Polonus did a good job (and no I don't mind).
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encore
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 66 |
Quoting Jan Harriesso... where are the tunes ? :) I've only released Family Guy Theme so far. I'd rather release less and unique tunes than just lots of crap. :)
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booker
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 |
Quoting MCI heard 'Voice tracker' has a REALLY good player routine! ;)
Polonus did a good job (and no I don't mind).
But composing with it is a pain :)
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MC
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 71 |
I find that each disadvantage has its advantage... Each editor tickles your creativity in a different way.
Of course I always stuck to music assembler, Afterall I was used to editing in length based mode and found that I never could really get to grips with anything tracker style. To each his own I guess.
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booker
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 |
99% of the stuff I done in 90s was in .DUR style editors. I have no I idea why I was so cruel to myself. Or if it wasn't still the editor was FC legacy (like HardTrack is, for example (marvelous player btw)) And yeah, I felt mostly annoyed by first attempts for anything on a tracker ....and now can't be bothered with anything else, really :D
It is as you say MC - everyone got to find an editor/player best for themselves.
Or even better - write own one!
(can't do that :P ) |
