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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
One last time: make voting optional when a release is created
There has been so much said about the ridiculous voting system at CSDb, that it is surprising it is still there. A voting system has no place in a database. A database like this collects data, but not votes, which is not fact based, but empathy based.
I don't want to start a new thread discussing this. I just would like to know if it could be agreeable to add a check box when you create a release, to allow or disallow voting for that particular release (one time choice only). I don't want people to vote for my age old releases, nor has that any value when they do. At least give us the choice to ban voting for releases we merely add for archival sake, and not to show off or be judged by lamers.
If that is not agreeable, then so be it. I will consider deleting my archival releases.
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cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935 |
>If that is not agreeable, then so be it. I will consider deleting my archival releases.
There is no way you can remove your entries from here, if you start doing that, you'll will get an auto-ban and the entries can easily be undeleted. |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
Why? I created the release, so I am a maintainer. I should be able and be allowed to delete my own creations? I am the intellectual owner so to speak. Why would that matter? |
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cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935 |
I agree with you, but that's how it works here. |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
I see, and we do not challenge status quo for the good of the many?
Then I am just left with the question: is a checkbox to allow or disallow voting when we create our own release agreeable or not.
If that answer is also no, the only option is not to upload anything new/old, nor create anything new. |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 255 |
Wouldn't it be easier to just add a user option to turn off the display of all votes completely, so that those who don't care about them no longer need to see them? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
you have my vote on removing the voting system entirely and forever. |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 349 |
---> disable anonymous voting! :) Alot of problems will gone i guess. (But otherwise alot of other problems would coming up) |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
There is an even easier solution to all of this: Care less! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
frantic has the actual solution =) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: There is an even easier solution to all of this: Care less!
This!
Mr. Mouse, you will be judged by people the second you start releasing stuff to the public, no matter whether there is an actual voting system or not.
I can't see the problem, really. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1926 |
Same here - just ignoring the votes works like a charm.
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
Who actually benefits from this voting system, who is in charge there, and what problem does this person have with us to keep a system that no one wants.
Oh well, it seems this is not going to happen then, a button to disable voting before you upload. And the trolls are kept alive on purpose.
Sure, the moment you release something to the public you will be judged, or not, people can also just not care. But I am not interested in what they think, if they express it in a number only and even as cowardly dogs at that. This isn't a talent show, I am not here to please them all, I create because I like creating. To learn and try new things. But i'm not after your votes.
I learn more from people that speak up and tell me what they like and don't like and why.
It bugs me that I have to ignore a useless voting system to get by here. I'd rather not upload at all then. But I can't upload it even on my own website, because chances are someone will then upload it here nevertheless. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
you can just use adblock or greasemonkey to hide votes. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Does "no one want" the voting system?
Considering how many threads there have been discussing better ways to calculate the overall ratings, people must care to some extent.
Yes, the system which calculates overall ratings doesn't really work with the low number of votes most releases get, but I still find it interesting to see people's individual ratings on my work. I can appreciate a written critique in the comments section would be more useful, but there isn't time to do that for every release. I'd rather have a number than no feedback at all.
This seems to stem from you releasing a 20 year old tune that people are now voting on. I don't think you can really release something and not expect people to pass opinion on it. Before CSDB, there were charts and magazines reviews, people will always have opinions. Also, if you don't think something is especially good yourself, why release it in the first place?
On the subject of public vs anonymous voting. My votes are public and sometimes there will be a highly rated release that I don't like very much. If everyone is voting 9-10 for something and I feel it's worth a 7, it's hard to submit that vote without feeling like I'm launching a personal attack on the person or group responsible. Whilst anonymous votes can be used by some to influence results unfairly, people can also use them to express a truer opinion than they would perhaps feel comfortable expressing publicly, maybe leading to a more accurate reflection of opinions overall. |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
agree with deev.
personally i like the vote system, not because of the ranking or shitty downvoting discussions. it is mostly because i am seriously interested in single opinions and they are often summed up by numbers.
talking about the top-rating-lists: entertaining but nothing to take serious. main issue here are csdb-members themselves. guess one does really not like a highly popular production and votes 6 or less. mostly there is a downvote drama going on. this is something reasonable for anonymous votes, but then there are obvious people who do strategic votes to "adjust the overall rating". then there is somekind of a weighting system going on which differes to a avarage rating. guess this is to make down/upvotes less absolute.
if you ask me - plug a hole by causing another leak.
check out lemon64 or artcity. both platforms do not use anonymous votes + pure avarage ratings and there is no drama at all. probably people here just have to risk a more open system to get things straight. |
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bepp
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 265 |
Quoting DeevConsidering how many threads there have been discussing better ways to calculate the overall ratings, people must care to some extent. +1
Quoting Oswaldyou can just use adblock or greasemonkey to hide votes. +1
What's the problem? If you're not interested in what people think, then just ignore it. If it bothers you enough, remove it yourself =) |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
I said I'd not want to open up this can of worms of a "voting discussion".
If people care about the voting, let them choose that option. If people do not want cowards to vote, let them also choose that option.
Like I said. Give users a checkbox upon creation of a release. If you're so hot on getting votes, fine. But don't bother me with it, let me make it impossible to vote. My work is not meant to be summed up in some useless number.
But anyway, let's stop this discussion. I justed wanted a yes or no to a "Allow voting" checkbox in the release creation dialog.
Mod, you can close this thread now. It's not working.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
for this discussion similar rules apply as to judging your age old tune, so no reason to close =) |
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dink
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 30 |
Simple solution to the problem: If you don't want people to judge your work, do not release it publically. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:check out lemon64 or artcity. both platforms do not use anonymous votes + pure avarage ratings and there is no drama at all.
i dont know artcity, but on lemon the drama comes and goes just like it does here, recently eg here: http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42602&postdays=0&p..
for the most part you dont notice it as much as on csdb because on lemon even a lot less people actually vote. |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: There is an even easier solution to all of this: Care less!
Amen to that.
It's just art and as all art, it's like releasing a paper boat on a little river. Your task is done as soon as you said goodbye to it. So, if it reaches the sea or not, some people will ever find it or not, or they even use it for something or not like writing down the Theory of the Universe, writing a love letter on it, wrapping around some weed and smoke it or wiping their asses with it - it's really all the same. It is a great deal of a lot of random things and ever existing confusion inside the skull of people.
Ease up, care less, release more. Positive ears are around. |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
Quoting FranticThere is an even easier solution to all of this: Care less!
yeah, I agree.
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
Quoting Mr. Mouse...If that answer is also no, the only option is not to upload anything new/old, nor create anything new.
If you release your stuff elsewhere on the web, chances are that it will end up here at some point, voted on, commented on.. etc... Anything you release will most likely be added without your permission even if you like it or not. As previously mentioned, any of your uploaded entries that you have tried to delete will be retrieved and added back into the Db.
I guess you could give up and not bother creating anything new for the '64. It's your choice.
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Quote: Quoting Mr. Mouse...If that answer is also no, the only option is not to upload anything new/old, nor create anything new.
If you release your stuff elsewhere on the web, chances are that it will end up here at some point, voted on, commented on.. etc... Anything you release will most likely be added without your permission even if you like it or not. As previously mentioned, any of your uploaded entries that you have tried to delete will be retrieved and added back into the Db.
I guess you could give up and not bother creating anything new for the '64. It's your choice.
I was going to ask about this issue.
What if I release a picture or anything c64 related (on my blog) and I dont want it be released here? (let's say for drama and voting reasons) do I have an option to ask admin/moderator to deleate it? |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
If you make it public, it will end up here. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
so stop debating it further, and finally do something.
instead of vote, show nr of downloads, or nothing at all.
but please do it, and end this debate. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Quote: If you make it public, it will end up here.
@cresh
interesting.
@all
is it OK to put it here then with regard to all IP (intelectual properties) rights?
what happens if author is doing C64 stuff and he doenst wish to put it here? does he has any rigths? (IMO he has and CSDB cant simply take the releases and store them here) and put it to the vote even when the author doesnt wnat it to.
really interesting issue from legal point of vie. I never looked at CSDB from this perspective
and I think I'm going to look for the CSDB IP policy or something - curiosity is eating me with this issue.... it really looks like a weak area to expoit for lawyers. |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
It is like IMDb, discogs.com with (not always) download links.
If you once made your c64 work public, its entry should be here. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting CRRN
@all
is it OK to put it here then with regard to all IP (intelectual properties) rights?
what happens if author is doing C64 stuff and he doenst wish to put it here? does he has any rigths? (IMO he has and CSDB cant simply take the releases and store them here) and put it to the vote even when the author doesnt wnat it to.
really interesting issue from legal point of vie. I never looked at CSDB from this perspective and I think I'm going to look for the CSDB IP policy or something - curiosity is eating me with this issue.... it really looks like a weak area to expoit for lawyers.
There's the Electronic Commerce Directive (EU). Article 14 forms the basis for notice and take down procedures by online hosts under EU law. |
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Jon
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247 |
That might be the basis of removing the files, but could he make a legal argument to remove his entries from here entirely?
If Mr. Mouse et. al can't have the actual entry removed, it will still be here (sans files) and will still be voted on.
This hardly seems a solution at all.
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
so if I do a c64 stuff and for some reason I hate this CSDB and people involved here (I'm not saying that i really do - just an example :D ) I have no option... and simply I doesn't seam to releaase my stuff nowhere on the internet? because it will end up here anyway? hm that's interesting thing which I didnt realized before :D
the iMDB example is not exactly acuurate though. CSDB link and most of the time hosts the .prg and .d64 files which I as an author may no want them to do. iMDB doesnt hosts the files (moves, torrent, etc) or are they?
so can CSDB copy my C64 files (again supposedly) and be OK with the low if the author states in licence tht his particular works can only be downloaded from his site and not stored on other sites?
sorry for this but it really bugs me... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
and then there is the scene that couldnt care less about it. there are even people who harvest commercial databases and post the results on their blogs without asking /o\
really. stop the fucking drama and produce something. at the end of the day the louder you complain, the less likely your stuff will get removed, ever =P |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Im not complaining nor doig a drama...
I was just curious how it works from IP perspective...
You can put my pics here as long as you re enjoing them... And i like to see votes statustics aswell as comments.
Marry christmass!
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
The scene in general has a quite pragmatic approach to IP. Basically anything goes, as long as you're not claiming other people's work as your own or making money off of other people's work without asking them first. :-)
Edit: Which I think is a quite sensible approach to the whole intellectual property thing. "Don't be a dick." |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:The scene in general has a quite pragmatic approach to IP. Basically anything goes, as long as you're not claiming other people's work as your own or making money off of other people's work without asking them first. :-)
that sums it up pretty well :) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quoting JonIf Mr. Mouse et. al can't have the actual entry removed, it will still be here (sans files) and will still be voted on.
If it has been released, it has been released.
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
Quote: so stop debating it further, and finally do something.
instead of vote, show nr of downloads, or nothing at all.
but please do it, and end this debate.
+1 |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
Quote: Amen to that.
It's just art and as all art, it's like releasing a paper boat on a little river. Your task is done as soon as you said goodbye to it. So, if it reaches the sea or not, some people will ever find it or not, or they even use it for something or not like writing down the Theory of the Universe, writing a love letter on it, wrapping around some weed and smoke it or wiping their asses with it - it's really all the same. It is a great deal of a lot of random things and ever existing confusion inside the skull of people.
Ease up, care less, release more. Positive ears are around.
Very well put.
By the way, if, Mr. Mouse, it is about uploading your old stuff here, I don't think you have to worry too much anyway - small old stuff does not get voted much anyway. There is just too much stuff uploaded every day; the people that bother to vote usually check out the new releases only.
From my side, I would be very glad if you would continue uploading old historical stuff for the sake of conservation, and share it with the ones interested here.
Cheers,
Bugjam |
