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anix
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 35 |
Commodore Monitors - PAL in USA ?
will american commodore monitors like 1902 work with a pal c64 ? or are they fixed to 60hz ntsc (i have assumed they are)
tired of looking at ugly animation and interlace gfx because of 50hz displayed on 60hz (some fields shown twice) as vga (adapters, dscaler etc)... i always figured that the monitors available here would not work, but maybe someone knows otherwise.
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
It works, but the colour circuitry is different, so you only get a black and white picture. |
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anix
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 35 |
how about a pal version commodore monitor running in the usa? could it work from a 110/60hz ac source?
i've also thought about some tv/monitors which are pal/ntsc capable - trying to keep to lower cost ebay material though.
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 293 |
I imported a C64C from the UK so I would have a PAL deck to work with. Since the timing in the C64 is independent of the line frequency, you simply use whatever power supply you have on hand to power it. My 1702 sync'ed fine at 50hz (the picture is just a bit tall), but it chokes on the color information. (b/w picture) To fix this I got a PAL2NTSC color converter from Cypress CP100N, IIRC. Now I have a 50hz NTSC system. Demos are synced properly, but you have to understand that there are some distinct differences in how color is displayed on PAL and NTSC monitors, so on my 1702, there's a little bit of bleed, and the picture is only slightly better than TV quality. It looks good, but the real deal would look much better, I'm sure. Of course, the upside of this is that I can now watch PAL demos at the proper speed with all the video effects, but the downside is that I know the colors are subtly different on my display. Of course, it could be said that there are color differences in every type of display, but I'm a purist.
So what's the best solution? Buy a PAL C64, PAL monitor, and run them both on a power converter. That's the only way to get 100% perfect PAL picture, but it's also the most expensive way to go.
When I first thought of doing this, the exchange rate between the dollar and most Euro currencies was a little better. Right now you'll take a beating buying against the Pound or Euro, and shipping will crush you, so I suggest the PAL C64/US Monitor/Color Corrector solution.
Anyway, when the VGA interface comes out, it'll all be a moot point, and someone REALLY needs to build a switchable daughterboard that would hold both PAL AND NTSC VIC with the required support circuitry.
S.o.D. |
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anonym
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 267 |
I am running my PAl c64 with a PAL monitor - my old philips one that I bought back in the earlier 90s. I am using a step up transformer to supply the monitor with the right voltage. |
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anix
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 35 |
six: ever have problems with a 60hz CIA TOD signal? and how will c=vga fix everything? the only way i see that working is if it's connected to CRT with something like 800x600@100hz perhaps... i don't know any TFT that will go down to 50hz v-rate - so you will have some fields displayed twice when displayed on a standard tft/crt at 60/70/75 hz...
i'm going to look into the color converter (which i guess is converting to YIQ from YUV) - you say on your 1702 the picture is tall, how much of the borders is left?
anonym: yea i just saw a 21" sony ntsc/pal monitor on ebay which the owner said requires a step-up transformer to run
and yes a PAL/NTSC switch for c64 would be nice :) actually, it would be nice in some ATX case with 50/60 hz switchable TOD, switchable PAL/NTSC, switchable SIDs, PS2 keyboard, and vga adapter
what a frankenstein that would be
i guess that was somewhat the point the the c-one machine |
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anix
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 35 |
six: that CP100N - it accepts composite PAL video and puts out 50hz NTSC composite ? the photograph of the unit shows only two rca jacks on its end ... no solution for s-video ? |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 293 |
Quote: six: that CP100N - it accepts composite PAL video and puts out 50hz NTSC composite ? the photograph of the unit shows only two rca jacks on its end ... no solution for s-video ?
It accepts composite PAL and outputs composite NTSC, but at what appears to be 50hz. The top and bottom borders are there, but there needs to be a slight adjustment to vheight on the 1702 to see everything at once. |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 293 |
Quote: six: ever have problems with a 60hz CIA TOD signal? and how will c=vga fix everything? the only way i see that working is if it's connected to CRT with something like 800x600@100hz perhaps... i don't know any TFT that will go down to 50hz v-rate - so you will have some fields displayed twice when displayed on a standard tft/crt at 60/70/75 hz...
i'm going to look into the color converter (which i guess is converting to YIQ from YUV) - you say on your 1702 the picture is tall, how much of the borders is left?
anonym: yea i just saw a 21" sony ntsc/pal monitor on ebay which the owner said requires a step-up transformer to run
and yes a PAL/NTSC switch for c64 would be nice :) actually, it would be nice in some ATX case with 50/60 hz switchable TOD, switchable PAL/NTSC, switchable SIDs, PS2 keyboard, and vga adapter
what a frankenstein that would be
i guess that was somewhat the point the the c-one machine
I haven't found much which is driven by the TOD signal, and while I suspect that the CIA is timed by the frequency of the 9vac, I'm not 100% sure.
I think a PAL/NTSC switch would be feasable. There is only the crystal, vic, and one jumper to switch depending on which mode you're in. |
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anix
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 35 |
six: yes the cia TOD is run by the ac9v... on the ide64 pages is a simple circuit to generate the proper signal from an ATX supply, which would be a nice way to get 50hz... and would be easily switchable between 50/60 as well.
are you sure the pal/ntsc could be so easy? does the jumper alter the clock division for the vic & cpu? i'll have the find the text again that describes where the clk comes from...
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 293 |
I envision a small board, with a PAL VIC, NTSC VIC, both crystals, and a small amount of support hardware to handle the switch. Granted, you'd need to turn it all off to switch modes, but it would be enormously useful for those of us here in NTSC land to be switchable. That way you only need one set hardware, and you don't have to swap the C64 out every time you want to run something in NTSC. Right now, my biggest beef is that I either have to start PALFIXING everything that I want to run that's NTSC (probably not a bad idea, really), or swap C64's (this becomes especially annoying when I've got the back of the C64 crammed full of hardware). |
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anix
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 35 |
six: another, pehaps strange way, would be to cram it all in an ATX... but with boards from both units, and switch between the boards ;) many parts could be wired in parallel and not need to be switched...
really though, i don't know of much stuff that only runs on ntsc... if i was writing a production of somekind myself, i'd probably just write it for pal... although i wonder what neat things you might be able to do with the 2 extra ntsc cycles.
i'm not even sure where to find a FLI editor that will work on ntsc. |
