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angelo
Registered: Jul 2024
Posts: 13 |
Howdy
Hi there. It's my first post here, so lemme introduce myself. I'm angelo, or æn.d͡ʒə.loʊ, or unj, a founder of KSKPD, the group behind polish unesco application.
I'm in process of researching some early-computing stuff, including an idea planted by @Krill and @bitfat, that the default narrative of "In the beginning it was a cracker scene, that developed into demoscene later because $REASONS" might be worth challenging.
I might be asking in various sub-forums questions around data on this site, but while I used to be a part of demoscene as a coder (1995+), I also owned PC exclusively since my first computer in like 1990. I skipped 8bit phase completely, so please bare with me, if the questions sound obvious or straight-up outrageously naive :) |
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angelo
Registered: Jul 2024
Posts: 13 |
Quoting Pex Mahoney TufvessonI don't think there was a cracking scene prior this demo from 1972: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naGntYNTSQM
Imho, I think there is a bigger picture somewhere that we need to look for before coming to conclusions on the origin of the demo scene. / Pex
that is an interesting example, i didn't know this one. thanks! |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 178 |
Quote:Quoting Pex Mahoney Tufvesson
I don't think there was a cracking scene prior this demo from 1972: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naGntYNTSQM
Imho, I think there is a bigger picture somewhere that we need to look for before coming to conclusions on the origin of the demo scene. / Pex
that is an interesting example, i didn't know this one. thanks!
And this has 0 relevance for the subject at hand.
There are literally hundreds of these old artifacts, I love them, I've read and watched everything there is about them. Search for Sunderland, Vanderbeek, Knowlton, Whitney, Cuba, just to name a few authors.
However, as I sad, totally irrelevant for your subject. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2940 |
Commercially-made early demos like Dancing Demon (1979) or (supposedly) Quelle Demo (1985) also shouldn't be considered - but the legendary Kaufhaus Demo (1986) probably should. =) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4694 |
Quote: that is unfortunately exactly the very paper I was referring to above :)
I don't say it's not interesting. It is very interesting, BUT: the paper says:
Quote:Most of the authors who have written on the topic were not part of the original scene themselves, so they have had to rely on second-hand sources where conflicting details have already been left out. My aim in this paper is to trace the origins of the story and offer a new perspective to the various reasons that led to the gradual separation of the two scenes.
So sure, this paper is better in a sense it relies on first-hand sources. It's based tho on few (6, s-i-x) interviews, and it's hard to claim the group is representative in any statistical sense, and claiming that you can draw conclusions from 6 sources is in my humble opinion a bold move.
Oh. Interviews, yes, but also a lot of other researchers work, see the literature list. |
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angelo
Registered: Jul 2024
Posts: 13 |
Quoting hedningsee the literature list.
Maybe I'm too stuck in my opinion, but what exactly should catch my eye on the literature list? |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3170 |
Quote: Oh yeah? What about when Moses CRACKED the tablets?
Tales of imaginary characters from fantasy stories don't count as historical events. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 178 |
Quote:Tales of imaginary characters from fantasy stories don't count as historical events.
You don't say |
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ws
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 248 |
By the way, this perspective on academia is interesting, i was unaware of that. (While the segment on her being female is also ofcourse important, it is the view of the system itself, that i find interesting.) |
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zzarko
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 72 |
Quoting iAN CooGTales of imaginary characters from fantasy stories don't count as historical events.
I disagree, it is very well documented in "History of the World Part 1":
https://youtu.be/I48hr8HhDv0?t=51 |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2940 |
Quoting wsI came in as late as 1987 into the C64 stuff. [...] Notable: having non-gaming or non cracking-related stuff on these swapping disks was considered lame. I personally remember seeing some first high class demos popping up on magazine disks in late 87, and that stuff always left the people i knew like "what? no game? boring!". Quoting 4gentEI’ve heard at least 10 or 20 recounts like this one above. My own memories are similar. That only seems to underline that the scene's split/divergence was in full swing or "complete" in 1987.
Demos suiting today's definition existed earlier.
The years leading up to that split are the central part of this "interpretation problem".
Quoting wsAnd i believe all the major first demo-effects were discovered by crackers. That makes them coders as well, doesn't it? |
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