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2015-01-16 18:22

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1090

Event id #2314 : C64 Cracking Competition 2015

Howdy Crackers!

These days the cracking scene is pretty active, but it seems most effort is spent on rushing out a version first with non-protected games.
Now that we found this nice original that hasn't been cracked, we thought, let's turn it around. Have a cracking competition with all of you with a full price EA game, including a nice protection. So here we go with the first C64 Cracking Competition 2015!

You are invited to crack "Return of Heracles" (C) 1983-1986 Electronic Arts.

Download the original here: http://sh.scs-trc.net/return_of_heracles.d64

Please read the rules carefully, and take all the time you need, quality over speed please :)

Rules:

- Submit your entry before or at 23:59 saturdayevening the 28th of March 2015 by email to c64crackingcompetition@hushmail.com
- Your release must fully run on a stock c64 + 1541.
- Your release must be filecopieable and packed.
- Your release must contain a crack intro, but you also must provide an introless version. This will be used to accurately measure size.
- Recracking is strictly forbidden, you must crack the original we provide. When in doubt, we will dig through your release and ask a few questions to confirm you really cracked it yourself.
- Individuals may only be part of a single release, so a group may enter multiple cracks, provided they are done by other members.
- You are allowed to use whatever tools you want.

Calculating Results:

50% of the result will be determined by public voting, either using or own voting system or on csdb. Stay tuned for additional info.

The other 50% of the result is calculated by the compo organizers using the following criteria:

- The shorter the better *)
- The faster it loads the better
- Proper saving capabilities
- Full PAL/NTSC compatibility
- Amount of bugfixes (if any bugs present in game)
- Amount of trainers (no double trainers)
- Minus points if you introduce bugs and need multiple versions
- The more devices besides 1541 (or compatible) you support, the better
- Optional REU support is also nice

*) We explicitly do not want to discourage the use of large intros, hence
the introless version requirement.

Most of all, have fun cracking this full price game!

The Organizers,

Peacemaker/Hitmen
Burglar/SCS*TRC

... 158 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2015-05-18 18:36

The Ignorance

Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 85

Nope.. Had to stop my job in february due to health problems.
No time and really not in the mood to do so.
I leeched the original and read the posts from the beginning and thought about starting, but sadly RL won.
And in opposite to my normal behaviour I kept my mouth shut. :)

In some days or weeks I will sell some of my hardware and originals. Ofcourse not all. But some pieces I will give to a place where they are used more often. All of my CMD hardware I bought as new from CMD. HF...

2015-05-19 16:58

Tom-Cat

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 20

Not sure what to say, but some of us do think there is something fishy going on here....

Lets compare results for #1 (Breeze) and #2 (Triad) entries:

1. Crack Size

It says here "without intro and without save games" ...
If you just add up the TRIAD release files and deduct save games :

28 + 560 - 9*37 = 255 blocks ... so here no intro was deducted aparently!

If you add up the Breeze release:

148 + 60 + 12 + 9 + 13 = 242 blocks ... here aparently the intro is 21 blocks big and was deducted?

Not sure, but I think this part needs to be recalculated properly.

2. Trainers

Ok, seems fair. Breeze's version does have more trainers, but most people will prefere Triad's version because of how it is done. Which is reflected in the voting too.

3. Loading Speed

Now, if you look at the compo rules you will see:

- Your release must fully run on a stock c64 + 1541.

So, there is no mention of ANY fastloader being used. This HAD TO BE tested on the stock c64 + 1541 ! Instead for this test a fastloader was used (Action Replay).

If you loaded these two versions on the STOCK machine as rules state then you would come to the following result:

Breeze: 2 minutes 10 seconds
Triad : 1 minute 15 seconds

I think the extra effort for making the boot file as short as possible should be awarded and this should be fairly represented as rules point out !

4. Packaging

First question here is WHY is "Drive Support" and "REU support" a part of this category ?
Triad's version has MANY more features than any other version and for that it gets only a 2 point advantage ?
Breeze's version has incomplete docs, no map, no kernal loader support, no save imports,... ?

5. Ingame Bugfixes

I think this is ok. Breeze version does have one or two more, but I think the drive support and reu support, importing games and stuff like that should be really included in this category (if they don't have another) and if that is considered the Triad release should get the full points here.

Overall

Well, it is very convenient that your opinion counts as 50% of all votes since if you look at the public voting results I think they should weigh more... also of 51 votes 23 voted for triad version, so if triad got almost 50% of votes they should really count more than just 9.7 compared to 9.23 of Breeze !

Breeze version is fine, but Triads version SHOULD be the winner here, anyway you look at it!

2015-05-19 19:00

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1090

@Tom-Cat, thanks for giving an in-depth review of my report. Some of your comments might alter the rules a bit for the next compo and some for sure not.
I'm a bit offended that you think something fishy is going on. Are you claiming that I am deliberately skewing the results? Nah, can't be.

On to the details...

1. Crack Size

My calculation is correct, but maybe you didn't understand when I wrote "For the Triad version, I had to subtract the savegames (9*37 blocks) plus an additional subtraction of $100 bytes per savegame for the last sector gap of those savegames."
Putting savegames inside iffl does not add 9*37 blocks, but actually about 9*36.6, and there are the 4 blocks that you thought I didnt count.

3. Loading Speed

You are mixing a release rule (as in, you will be disqualified if your release does not run on a stock 64) with a load speed calculation. But, I agree, this should've been more clear from the start.
Next time I think I will clearly state how I do the speed timing.

4. Packaging

Yep, Triad won this category by a landslide. And yeah, maybe this category should be split in an "Extras" and a "Loader Support" category in the future.

Overall

The 50/50 split between jury and public was there from the start and I tried to be as objective as I can be. There is nothing convenient about it, if I was to favour anyone, it would've been me! :P

2015-05-19 19:25

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

I must add that Bigfoot is extremely good in all areas coming to coding (and not just on the c64, also in modern enviroments) including cracking, altho he mostly worked on demos etc on the scene. He is just not much into making a name for himself, or blabbling here with us :)

For example I guess nobody realizes that he did most of our Desert Dream remake, all the shitty linking job, often recoding parts of our parts, and the whole intro (side1).

I'm glad to hear he joined one of the big groups thanks to this compo :)

thanks for the comments on the intro, its been ages I've released something. not that I dont want to, but the bar is so high, and the time is so little, working on it ;)

2015-05-19 19:37

Tom-Cat

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 20

Hi.

Just wanted a clarification on some parts of the judging...

About 1. Crack size - it is clear now. I was just following your text which says "For the Triad version, I had to subtract the savegames (9*37 blocks) plus an additional subtraction of $100 bytes per savegame" which doesn't bring the total to 255 blocks, with the 9*36.6 it does (the intro is tiny).

About 2. Action Replay or any speeder is not mentioned anywhere, just the stock c64 + 1541, so I think everyone assumed the tests would be run that way and that's probably the reason why 3ad has a tiny boot file. If sailor crammed everything he could in there it would probably made quite some more difference size-wize.

Otherwise - your compo, your rules :)

2015-05-19 19:56

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1090

yea agreed, thanks for the tips, it'll make the next one better :)

the funny thing is that this game was actually a very good subject for a compo. so many different valid approaches possible for numerous things, which gave us really different cracks. This also made it hard to judge.

2015-05-31 12:18

Bacchus

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156

Again, thanks guys.

So our version doesn't have the load/save - Rowdy is still working on this. I guess not providing a 100% version sort of makes you participate out of contest anyway.

The reason why it crashes after F7 is if you use Action Replay. It should work fine without AR. We still don't know why this is. Thing is - it works with Action Replay before crunching :-)

Also, on my ingame trainer; I have added the enternal potion in the 100% version, and also the function to go back to "Know thyself", which enables you to make settings and then validate the result without going back to the game. I haven't seen any lockups and yould be happy to get the feedback where this appear. For me, the points for this is a bit undeservingly low.

The Triad maps and docs are outstanding. I can't even see why we got points in this category. They are not deserved.

So comparing the Breeze and the Triad version, I'd say the lack of IFFL is the "flaw" with Breeze" and I also do not like the in-IFFL placement of save games in Triad's version, and if I would pick a winner, it would be Breeze. So in a fight between two STUPIDLY good versions, to me, Breeze still a tiny tine bit ahead. If the FLT version would be working with AR and load/save games Id say we'd also surpass the Triad one.

Again, thanks for the fun and for luring me into wasting so many nights. It's was perfectly set-up for this as I had invested a lot before I realised how much was left and then I sort of already passed "point of no return". Had I know the requested amount of work, there is NO way I would have done it ;-)

Next time Bigfoot we be participating as a FairLighter, so we are looking forward to more of these. (Me eating popcorn and Bigfoot doing the work :-)

2015-05-31 12:19

Bacchus

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 156

Can I also add that we actually sent a mail to EA legal to get permission to crack the game?

We wanted to get that as an extra bonus, our version being a legit copy and all the others being pirate copies.

Never got any answer ... :-P

2015-05-31 12:32

Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647

-1 for legit copy. ;)

2015-06-01 05:52

Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 681

BigFooT was indeed surprising and impressive both. Hope you have fun in FLT and do some quality work there for the rest of us to enjoy.

All in all I think everyone can walk away from this and say they learned something new idea wise on how to crack and optimize a game, how much work it is to do a quality version and not just a speed crack, and finally, have some respect for each others skills. You are the 1%.

Not everyone has the same preferences for how a crack should be done, and that's not a bad thing. Having talented people make great versions with different styles and features that gives people choice in what they play, well that's worth a lot and something that I've really missed over the years. Thank you all for some enjoyable cracks!

I hope to see more stuff done with skill instead of big mouths ;D

Good job wankers.

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