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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 588 |
Intro Compos - and Size Coding
I wanted to bring this topic up again.. as I know it was discussed before between TheRyk, Krill, Jammer, GPZ and others.
Size-limited intro compos. WHY are they restricted to limited RAM?
An intro compo, for me, shouldn’t be about pretending that C64 has limited memory. Intros should really just be appropriately sized “hey, we cracked this, we’re awesome, hello to our friends!” things to impress.
A 1k intro would normally be linked to a <4k game.. so if it chose to expand to 48k, but only added 1k or less to the file size, that would be fine. In the real world. The person playing the cracked game really doesn’t care less what the intro’s doing. It’s just an intro.
The argument that “we’re turning an intro compo into a compressed demo compo” seems backward. That’s not it at all. By adding the extra restrictions, you’re actually saying it’s not an intro compo at all - it’s now a size-coding compo.
My 2c.
Ps. Recent discussion on this was here: https://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=12&topicid=158496&showallposts=1 |
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Jetboy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 242 |
I don't understand where is the problem?
One can write the intro in whatever way one wants. If one organizes intro compo, one can set whatever rules one want.
I do not see a problem if one intro compo limits executable size, and the other compo limits memory usage as long as the rules are set up upfront and clear. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1054 |
Quoting RaistlinIn the OLD days, the really old days, all that we cared about was the size of the file.
not really, we only cared about being first :)
also, exactly what Jetboy said :) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4628 |
Quote: Quoting RaistlinIn the OLD days, the really old days, all that we cared about was the size of the file.
not really, we only cared about being first :)
also, exactly what Jetboy said :)
I think he means the OLD days, like pre 1988 old. Like he mentioned: The Mr.Z-intro etc. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1054 |
Quoting hedningI think he means the OLD days, like pre 1988 old. Like he mentioned: The Mr.Z-intro etc.
no, one example doesn't make it all that we cared about.
Eagle Soft Incorporated Intro (Eagle 2x1) is not small :)
anyway, the real pressure on crack (and thus intro) size came with gamers guide.
that doesn't mean great work like Mr.Z's intro wasn't appreciated. it's not a surprise he rules the cracker charts here :)
edit: also why I rate gp2k! highly :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11165 |
Quote:Eagle Soft Incorporated Intro (Eagle 2x1) is not small :)
Was that used on onefilers though? When the release is a full disk anyway, things are a bit different IMHO :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2871 |
Question still remains: How to properly formalise any less-bonkers modified restrictions? =) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 588 |
Quote: Question still remains: How to properly formalise any less-bonkers modified restrictions? =)
"there'll be a xK game that needs to be left at or copied to $0801-????. We won't provide that but will test your intro with it." should surely suffice..?
I'm not suggesting that this compo be done, by the way.. it's not worth diluting the excellent existing intro compo with another one with different rules.
I don't even know how the extra memory could be used - I just wonder why the restriction is always there that it can't be. Coding an intro that compresses to a small footprint but expands itself to fill more memory isn't especially easy and opens up new challenges. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2871 |
Quoting RaistlinI just wonder why the restriction is always there that it can't be. Coding an intro that compresses to a small footprint but expands itself to fill more memory isn't especially easy and opens up new challenges. For an intro competition, restricting the memory footprint to some arbitrary size (say, 4KB) makes sense, doesn't it?
The usual restriction is size on disk, with the entire RAM at your disposal.
Are you suggesting something in between? :) Like 4 KB on disk and 8 KB RAM available? |
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Jetboy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 242 |
Intro competition is about the intro, not about game that is attached to.
Sure, Intros originated from crack intros, but that was 30++ years ago. Since then they evolved a lot and became it's own thing.
I still do not understand why would you want to create common rules. Scene is not a mindless corporation that needs stiff rules. On the contrary, it is all about breaking rules and pushing limits. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2871 |
Do not confuse intros with size-constrained onefiled demos. =) |
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