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Fix
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 54 |
Sprite Multiplexing - Myth Busted ?
Many many years ago when I first saw the amazing effect were you have more than 8 sprites at same time I were thrilled.
Don't have a clue who did the first spritemultiplex routine.
A master brain wizard who have found another cool bug in the vic ii chip.
Or maybe not ?
Some time ago I actually read whole my programmers reference manual, where I found an very interesting notice in the sprite chapter were they says it's possible to have more than 8 sprites at same time using advanced technics, and some pages later it does tell you how to do this effect with raster interupt waiting.
It does not exactly tells you how, but it tells you it can be done.
Some my thought here,
Then Commodore Did know this feature already from start ?
Is it a bug or a feature that the designers added ?
Is there other cool routines that actually Commodore knew and wrote about ?
Or is this already known for the last 15 years ? |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
sprite multiplexing is relatively obvious, kinda like screen splitting which the raster irq was made for. but i remember that some commodore spokesman denied the possibility to display graphics in the border area. |
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Bitrapper
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2004
Posts: 8 |
yes,
commodore said, that i´t would not be possible to show graphics in the border.
but we all know it is possible. :-)
about your first question with the sprites:
i remember a Demo from Horizon in which they showed a lot of sprites flying in a circle and they were prouldy counting them.
i mean the sprites were showing letters.
T. |
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
I've always been interested in commodore 64 unknown features discovering history. I think it would be interesting to write an article on it. When the c64 was born there were many things people didn't know about and were discovered during the years. For example, who and when found out that the border could be opened? Who found out about digis playing on the sid?..... |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
People have _not_ landed on the moon and hackers have _not_ put graphics in the border of a c64. You have all been fooled by propaganda. People WAKE UP!!! |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
quote from c= hacking #8
Q $055) The box that the C64 comes in has some propaganda on the side
describing the unit. In the specifications section, it claims how
many sprites can be on screen at one time?
A $055) I neglected to note that the Commodore 64 packing box has underwent
many changes. However, for quite a while, CBM used a blue box with
many views of the 64, and a specification list on on side of the box.
On that spec list, it claims that the the 64 can have "256
independently controlled objects, 8 on one line." Why is this
important? It gives us a clue that the VIC-II designers figured people
would and could use the interrrupts on the VIC-II to change sprite
pointers.
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H.O
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 70 |
Quote: I've always been interested in commodore 64 unknown features discovering history. I think it would be interesting to write an article on it. When the c64 was born there were many things people didn't know about and were discovered during the years. For example, who and when found out that the border could be opened? Who found out about digis playing on the sid?.....
Depends on which border.
For the top border, most people seems to agree that Flash Inc. was the first to do this.
For the side-border, there was a bit of conflict around this (if I remember correctly) where 1001 and Sodan (if my memory serves me right) both claimed to be first. Personally I've always seen 1001 crew as the creators here though.
For full screen there is no doubt (to my knowledge) that this was created by 1001 crew.
Samples I have no idea whether you can find a first on. It was used in several games -- for example Ghostbusters, Impossible mission, etc -- and also used in speec synthezisers (such as SAM) . Early versions used turning on and off the volume to create this effect.
Regarding the original question, about 8++ sprites on the screen; as already mentioned this was a know feature of the c64 and it certainly was planned. It was used fairly early in some games (sorry, no title comes to mind) and was also used in several early (depending on what you mean with early :) ) demos.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
The first sprite multiplexer, I think was made by Ray of Triton Technology. |
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Ben
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163 |
@H.O.: Flash _inc_ ? You must be kidding. And have you ever come across something like that from Sodan?
@rambones: Well, if you take multiplexing as reusing sprites later during the same frame, it is much, much older. What Ray did is throwing in some kind of sorting algorithm and sinus movement. Are there not older demos containing such enhancements? |
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Fix
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 54 |
This is what I ment, Commodore 64 VIC chip designers were first with Multiplex (more than 8 sprites on screen) since they mention it in my book and even how to make it happen..
And what I wonder, is there more "bugs/routines" the scene used that Commodore allready knew/had done before us?
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H.O
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 70 |
Quote: @H.O.: Flash _inc_ ? You must be kidding. And have you ever come across something like that from Sodan?
@rambones: Well, if you take multiplexing as reusing sprites later during the same frame, it is much, much older. What Ray did is throwing in some kind of sorting algorithm and sinus movement. Are there not older demos containing such enhancements?
Sorry, I meant Flash Cracking Group (or actually Flash) .
I have been emailing a bit with a former Flash Inc member recently, and my brain must have messed things up. |
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