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Sequencer
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 13 |
What editors are PPL using now?
Hey. So I haven't coded a chiptune properly for C-64 since the mid 90s (I've used a hardsid in midi, a sidstation, and (gasp) quadrasid emulation but all mainly in recorded work). But now I am thinking it would be fun to make some new tracks, and some old friends are starting to ask me for them...
So, the last time I really did anything it was in JCH Editor (v17-19 range, I think... it is all foggy now). I'm curious to hear what people are using now and what enhancements have been made. I'm sorry if this is a redundant topic somewhere else --
I've dabbled with GoatTracker. Found it a bit off. But one thing I did like, that wasn't present in JCH editor was the sort of ability to vastly modify the instrument within the pattern data. For example, changing filter mode/cutoff/resonance within the voices vs. having to make one or several sweeping instrument definitions.
I had messed a little bit with multi-speed editing (x3), which at the time was a pain.
I'm also pretty interested in some of what has happened with C-64 + sample playback. I saw an impressive demo of something like a MOD or XM playing on C64, and then being post processed through the filter.
Anyway, curious to hear what people are using and why. |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 112 |
Quote: Yes of course - but I personally simply would like to make a tune with digis someday. It could be used easily as-is or in a music collection for example. I guess I should try Rockmonitor someday :)
Simply wait until I release my MDG-Modconverter at breakpoint. It's a lot easier to compose sampled music with your favourite Amiga or PC-Tracker;) |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
Then again I am not completely sure in what way it makes sense to play the tune back on a c64? Of course it was nice to begin with, as a proof of concept, but now... Why not just compose it on an Amiga, and play it back on an amiga aswell? The amiga is good for that. ;)
Now, of course, this isn't a question with a once-and-for-all answer, and if people find this rewarding, then everything is fine I guess. I'm speaking more from my point of view here.
@THCM: How much rastertime, circa, is available for other things when the modplayer routine is running? |
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psych
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 141 |
Quote: god have mercy on their souls (dmc users, john player)
pollytracker ? use a pc!
i have yet to actually do something in HCM's player..
didnt find the time..
yes, shit must be forgotten :)
Jan I love my little DMC :) It's not easy to use,but once you know how to work on it you can compose like on any other tracker. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
DUR editors are for machochists! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
have to agree with rambones there, .dur based editors are the most painful stuff ever invented =)
Quote:But SDI has this 4th fx channel which is a complete bliss. You can use it f.ex. to control the filters for all channels
and grg stole that idea from my tracker! DAMN HIM! *g* |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 112 |
Quote: Then again I am not completely sure in what way it makes sense to play the tune back on a c64? Of course it was nice to begin with, as a proof of concept, but now... Why not just compose it on an Amiga, and play it back on an amiga aswell? The amiga is good for that. ;)
Now, of course, this isn't a question with a once-and-for-all answer, and if people find this rewarding, then everything is fine I guess. I'm speaking more from my point of view here.
@THCM: How much rastertime, circa, is available for other things when the modplayer routine is running?
@Frantic It's a matter of taste and I really *love* the old intro tunes from M.O.N. and all the other composers. My converter makes life a lot easier to combine the best of both worlds! Compose your song with Goattracker and ModPlugtracker and use my converter to make an executeable song. Test it using WinVice or transfer it to your c64. You can mix the original sid sound with 8 bit waveform samples and the best is, that our routine works on every Sid and you don't get any distortions like normal $d418 mixed tunes. Even filtering the sid or the samples is possible! I know that we used old Amiga mods in our demo, but we didn't have time to compose our own songs. We were happy to finish our demo at the party and to at least release something as a proof of concept. The only real tune using my converter is the compo tune made by Fanta and it was made in a hurry. There wasn't enough time to include our own original samples.
There are a lot instruments which simply sound better using samples like drums, percussion or even the human voice. The sid sound is very good for a fat bass or a nice lead, so why not combine it?
The needed raster time depends upon the features you need for your tune. For example 2 sid voices + 4 8bit waveform digi channels mixed at 7800hz with screen enabled takes almost the whole raster time. Playing a normal 4 channel amiga module using $d418 output with 7800hz mixing takes about 230 raster lines, leaving enough time to do some stuff on the screen like in our Vicious Sid demo. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
@THCM: Okay.. I didn't know the player supported SID voices too, since I thought (due to the mods in the demo) that it was mainly a straight mod-player, only with some of the "effects" stripped away. That changes things a bit, yes. (In fact, I was a bit tempted to do such a player myself, since I got some ideas about how to maybe do the mixing even faster. :)
I agree with your "why not" argument. It is valid.
By the way.. Are the samples REALLY 8bit? Isn't it something like 6bit samples mixed to a 8bit output signal? ...or is it 8bit samples mixed to a 8bit signal (with some accuracy loss due to the mixing, so the samples are not strictly speaking output as pure 8bit samples due to four of them being mixed)? Not that it matters a whole lot, but I am just a bit curious.. :) (I know about the general technique, invented by SounDemon of coz, and why that is 8bit (for one sample).) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
i personally also wouldnt mind to see a formal explaination and documented source for that method.... tuning "sam" a bit is tempting :) |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 112 |
Quote: @THCM: Okay.. I didn't know the player supported SID voices too, since I thought (due to the mods in the demo) that it was mainly a straight mod-player, only with some of the "effects" stripped away. That changes things a bit, yes. (In fact, I was a bit tempted to do such a player myself, since I got some ideas about how to maybe do the mixing even faster. :)
I agree with your "why not" argument. It is valid.
By the way.. Are the samples REALLY 8bit? Isn't it something like 6bit samples mixed to a 8bit output signal? ...or is it 8bit samples mixed to a 8bit signal (with some accuracy loss due to the mixing, so the samples are not strictly speaking output as pure 8bit samples due to four of them being mixed)? Not that it matters a whole lot, but I am just a bit curious.. :) (I know about the general technique, invented by SounDemon of coz, and why that is 8bit (for one sample).)
@Frantic I'm very curious how you want to achieve faster mixing? I really tested lots of different approaches and I didn't found a faster way. The mixing routines depend upon the complexity of the desired features like the degree of frequency freedom and or volume control for each voice. Join the beta team and just take a sneap peak at the replayer source.
Ok, I only want to provide the tool and let the composer decide what's best for his composition.
Therotically the c64 should be able to output 12 bit samples, but I think it's too slow to mix and output more than 1 or 2 voices at a time. My routine supports 3 different mixing qualities. 6 bit samples mixed to 8 bit output, 7 bit samples mixed to 8 bit output and 8 bit samples mixed with 7.5 bit accuracy to 8 bit output. The last and highest quality mixer is only available in the source and not selectable in the converter, but the difference is that big anyway.
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 112 |
Quote: i personally also wouldnt mind to see a formal explaination and documented source for that method.... tuning "sam" a bit is tempting :)
SounDemoN explained the new waveform digi routine in the latest vandalism news #50. Just take a look there. If you have questions about my mixing routines send me a PM. |
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