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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
Release id #158304 : Heil Hitler
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 23 August 2017
Moving the comments to the discussion soon.
User Comment
Submitted by Seven [PM] on 23 August 2017
So let me get that right. You're on the forefront deleting "cracks" in the database, but distributing nazi propaganda is part of the scene?
How about you put that shit on your beloved boards and remove it here then.
User Comment
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 23 August 2017
Well. It's part of the scene history, just as all other disturbing shit. I bet you can find countries where nudes and porn are banned - should we delete all that too? Disclaimer: germans - don't download this. You probably know your own laws. Just like you shouldn't google "Heil Hitler" etc in Germany.
User Comment
Submitted by fieserWolF [PM] on 23 August 2017
Stop distributing this shit. Also, illegal to have this on your computer or phone in Germany |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
Mein Kampf became legal in Germany in 2015. Nazi symbols like swastika, SS sign, etc are legal if shown in movies, books, computer games, etc because it's considered art and not nazi propaganda.
Other countries have different laws about nazi symbols, but you can read everything here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_legalit.. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Quote: Mein Kampf became legal in Germany in 2015. Nazi symbols like swastika, SS sign, etc are legal if shown in movies, books, computer games, etc because it's considered art and not nazi propaganda.
Other countries have different laws about nazi symbols, but you can read everything here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_legalit..
Partially correct. Nazi symbols are fine in things that are considered art or for educational purposes. Video games are not considered art by German law, so any Nazi symbols in games would get your game instantly banned (meaning you can not sell it legally. You can still own it.)
It would actually be interesting if a whole bunch of big games companies would file a class action kinda thing in Germany to get video games considered as art, but oh well. |
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Brataccas
Registered: Jan 2015
Posts: 15 |
This topic is very current - there's an article today in the BBC news about a Canadian town refusing to remove swastikas from a park for historical reasons:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41028895
Personally, these parts of the past are embarrassing, but we can't pretend they didn't happen. I'd vote for some kind of flag to mark 'offensive' entries and let people filter what they want to see. |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Quoting BrataccasI'd vote for some kind of flag to mark 'offensive' entries and let people filter what they want to see.
There's something deeply unsettling with this idea in general. Of course, for something like CSDb it would probably work fine. But when it's applied large-scale, as is done silently by Google and Facebook, it leads to a society where people or groups of people withdraw into their own bubbles of ideas/morals/truths that are self-consistent, but incompatible with ideas outside the bubble.
The overall effect of this will be a reduced ability of people to communicate across cultures. It will slow down the Enlightenment again, undoing some of the advances that the Internet brought. It will smooth out and hide controversies in the short term, at the cost of increased risk of conflict later on.
The world may be ugly sometimes, but the first step to doing anything about it is to see it for what it is and live in reality. Hiding the ugly stuff is counter-productive.
This is one argument against censorship, and it is different from the ones put forward by Croozor (where does it stop?) and by hedning (dangers of revisionism).
Like spider-j, I'm not trying to force CSDb to adapt to my moral views. That would be futile, and also uncivil. Censorship, like nazism, is often described as a force of darkness, i.e. the best way to get rid of it is to shine light on it. So that is what I try to do: Looking at the matter from various angles, exposing what I think are the ugly bits. I encourage others to do the same to my arguments.
But I think this thread has gone off on a tangent, because we are failing to discuss a most interesting point made by Seven: If we do not hide nazi propaganda, why do we hide releases that compete with commercial products? Is copyright more important than ethics, and more important than historical accuracy? I can understand how that position is offending. Can we try to shine some collective light on that? |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
I understand that to be out of respect as the (hobbyist) creators are usually known here, the circles are small, as are the sales. And it's a time-delay mechanism so that the stuff will eventually be put on download, unlike censoring a release for good. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
Quote: I understand that to be out of respect as the (hobbyist) creators are usually known here, the circles are small, as are the sales. And it's a time-delay mechanism so that the stuff will eventually be put on download, unlike censoring a release for good.
The same can be said about old nazi releases made by some dumb teenager. Imo it would only have to be censored to protect the creator. We don't know if the creator is still a nazi-douche or has evolved into a left winged punk-head. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Right, then we get into the "right to be forgotten" vs. history integrity argument.
Not having any idea, how common are deletions by request due to the release itself containing personally identifying information here? |
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Fix
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 54 |
Maybe a Note or Disclaimer before downloading disturbing releases that are propaganda, porn or similar? |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2218 |
I don't get why the discussion keeps digressing into the points
- law <- Cracking scene has always been kinda "lawless", anyone who thinks downloading cracks can by any means be declared legal, is naive, our blessing is, no one cares about some thousand weirdos who still fuck around with 30 something years old systems
- moral <- I hope(!) that 99 + x % of all visitors, registered or not, find Nazi messages disgusting (though I can still only judge from the title)
What we're dealing with is alone the question:
Should offending stuff be deleted or archived?
My point of view is pretty clearly the latter, as I think, you can also overdo political correctness. This thread already shows via entry links that the consequence would be endless discussion about entries EVERYONE had on disk back then, no matter how immature/disgusting/politically incorrect they might have been or be in the aftermath. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3186 |
I want all robric tunes deleted, they offend my sensibility. |
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