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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Release id #218343 : E2IRA
The highest level of admiration is imitation ;)
Joker guys made our day at Xenium with this one!
https://youtu.be/kl8dH7ooRyU |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 349 |
64 people -> 64 different opinions with intersections ...
I always prefered "real time effects", whatever that means exactly.
But this disco torus bashed me hard also! I never watched a demo twice a day, except this one. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quote:If similar logic would be applied to any C64 production, no one would have any right to bash Wile Coyote converts anymore
You do get the difference between coding something by a real life person and using a gfx conversion tool, right?
Quote:I do appreciate all the effort that was made to put E2IRA to life
I know! However you try to backflip now, I will always keep in my heart your first, genuine reactions:
User Comment Submitted by F7sus4 [PM] on 26 July 2022
[..]The demo is a milestone already and will be appreciated for all the great design it has delivered.
So it's not just Jammer's music, huh...
User Comment Submitted by F7sus4 [PM] on 4 July 2022
The absurd amounts of perfectionism put into every single frame of the demo are nothing but mindbending. There's no need to list or name the effects, since Arise reworked and reraped all of them thousands of times repeatedly leading to the ultimate form as we see conducted on the screen.
Ultimate form! Nicely put. We do appreciate it. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
F7sus4, so what about the list of those C64 avi demos you mentioned? Still waiting... |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
My opinions as below
Important to maintain the c64 scene. In a time where there is limited releases, every release regardless should be appreciated.
A good demo overall is one that looks and runs good regardless of how it got there. Perfect example is "state of the art" by spaceballs on amiga. Yes it was an animation player via vector coordinates and some bitplane layers providing the "post processing" (and some inbetweening of points between each real frame) but the final output was great. I think some people got a bit pissed off at the time due to some young teenager stealing the light from some other amiga sceners who spent a considerable amount of time tweaking and optimising their realtime code though :-)
E2ira was not just a CSAM frame import/export/playback (if it was just that, the entire demo would last 10 seconds). The demo was great, thats all that matters
Any person with some knowledge will know whether something is truly realtime or not and kudos if doing it in realtime ofcourse
Ultimately... A demo that looks and sounds good with a decent length (not a 10 second flip frame animation) is a good demo no matter how it achieves it
And as some people have said here earlier. If you want to do it in realtime, do it. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Wacek, you have provided quotes that praise the design (yes, it is great indeed, as already said), while the current discussion is actually related to code and the amount of real-time effects in E2IRA (or rather a lack of them). That's quite a lot of whataboutism for a single attempt. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quoting F7sus4while the current discussion is actually related to code
Sure, what I'm trying to say is: a) there is code, b) there is difficulty and effort there, yet you keep comparing the code of this demo to effortless gfx wiring, which for me - sorry, not to get personal - means you don't get it.
Also, that demo list please, because you keep avoiding the subject. So, should I understand your withdraw your statement on that, or we will get some meat on that bone? |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 427 |
Good demo will always be a good demo. Regardless if it's animated or not. Some things are and some aren't. Good art will always be a good art.
What counts for me is novelty, freshness, challenging ideas etc.
E2IRA doesn't lack these. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Some jerk off to a good experience, some to plain code pr0n, others to phat ass gfx and/or music. A good demo for me does not mean it will fulfill your specific kink. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Quoting WacekSure, what I'm trying to say is: a) there is code, b) there is difficulty and effort there, yet you keep comparing the code of this demo to effortless gfx wiring
It does not mean that no effort was made or that E2IRA presents no artistic value whatsoever. I personally share the conclusion that coding an animation player is not equally impressive as compared to realtime effects which the very same pre-made animation would present. It was already done with REU stuff. I think Brush already made good points before, and the best that can be done is to perceive E2IRA as a newschool collage of techniques, interesting in its very own niche, yet not something that could be placed between other purely realtime-calculated demos. Whether that is a bad thing or not is a matter of what criteria the recipient decides to focus on. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
You lost me on REU stuff. You are really putting in the same bag: a nuvie player or a demo playing unmodified frames from extended memory in a ping-pong fashion to a demo using partial frames and in most cases modifying them on the fly (I will not dare to use the forbidden word) using stock hardware. Let's stop here.
Quote:yet not something that could be placed between other purely realtime-calculated demos
Brush did not say this, nobody except one person said this. Not one person on Amiga is saying 242 and SOTA are separate category of demos not worthy to be listed along side Friday At Eight or Desert Dream. On a hardware where doing a player is actually far more easier due to memory and cpu power.
A demo is a demo. It's not me trying to twist the definitions in postmodernistic fashion - you are doing that to fulfill your personal "kink", sorry. |
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