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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Release id #218343 : E2IRA
The highest level of admiration is imitation ;)
Joker guys made our day at Xenium with this one!
https://youtu.be/kl8dH7ooRyU |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Some jerk off to a good experience, some to plain code pr0n, others to phat ass gfx and/or music. A good demo for me does not mean it will fulfill your specific kink. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Quoting WacekSure, what I'm trying to say is: a) there is code, b) there is difficulty and effort there, yet you keep comparing the code of this demo to effortless gfx wiring
It does not mean that no effort was made or that E2IRA presents no artistic value whatsoever. I personally share the conclusion that coding an animation player is not equally impressive as compared to realtime effects which the very same pre-made animation would present. It was already done with REU stuff. I think Brush already made good points before, and the best that can be done is to perceive E2IRA as a newschool collage of techniques, interesting in its very own niche, yet not something that could be placed between other purely realtime-calculated demos. Whether that is a bad thing or not is a matter of what criteria the recipient decides to focus on. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
You lost me on REU stuff. You are really putting in the same bag: a nuvie player or a demo playing unmodified frames from extended memory in a ping-pong fashion to a demo using partial frames and in most cases modifying them on the fly (I will not dare to use the forbidden word) using stock hardware. Let's stop here.
Quote:yet not something that could be placed between other purely realtime-calculated demos
Brush did not say this, nobody except one person said this. Not one person on Amiga is saying 242 and SOTA are separate category of demos not worthy to be listed along side Friday At Eight or Desert Dream. On a hardware where doing a player is actually far more easier due to memory and cpu power.
A demo is a demo. It's not me trying to twist the definitions in postmodernistic fashion - you are doing that to fulfill your personal "kink", sorry. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: Quoting OswaldSo for you two a "painting" made by sending a prompt to DALL-E, wins over a true painting, because you cant tell the difference just by looking at it.
You seem to miss the point. The tunnel from Bromance that you mention isn't a good example - it's lossy-packed so, of course, you can see that it's an anim. It still looks fantastic though..
But anyway.. if you show me two absolutely identical pictures, one drawn on screen using some fancy math and another that's just a PNG.. yeah, you're right, I can't tell the difference just by looking. But then neither can anyone - because they're the exact same picture.
Quoting OswaldNo magic for me in packing down animations to small sizes, sorry. C64 scene was always about doing shit realtime, and for me will always will be.
I just checked the code in Star Wars Demo's Flip Disk part and, hats off to you, I never realised that that wasn't an animation.. and now it makes sense to me why there are so few frames... it looks like 30-32 frames..? Which would be 15-16 if you'd used D011/D018 trickery to handle mirroring.
In a coding competition, I could understand the effort. For a demo competition like X, being brutally honest, I don't .. hats off to you, as I say.. but a precomputed animation could've been a lot easier, could've looked much better .. and maybe it would've left you enough time to code a Star Wars scroller for that demo..? ;p
Summary:
Do what you like. If you like to code these things, and allow someone else to more easily show a smoother version, go for it. There are no rules about how C64 demos should be made - regardless of your quoted comments ;-)
star wars flip disk should have been a scroller, it wasnt made for that part or demo, just ended up in there, because I lost my motivation to finish it.
also its not 30-32 frames of animation it always has the "correct" perspective, regardless of X pos. Also it can display any "font texture" not just that raster shade. I whish you good luck at making it better smoother as an animation :) |
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Dano
Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 231 |
People whining about the demo should rather think about why they were not clever enough to do it like this.
A demo is there to entertain an audience as good as it can.
If one demo is coderporn the coders will appreciate.
If a demo just pleases the eyes and earn way more people will love and rewatch that demo.
In an audience only coders care if the demopart was 5 or 100 blocks long on disc.
Now people, go and make demos about it. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting DanoPeople whining about the demo should rather think about why they were not clever enough to do it like this.
A demo is there to entertain an audience as good as it can. Otoh i can understand the frustration of some coders when significant parts of the audience can easily be deceived into thinking it's real-time, or that there's actual MP3 playback on vanilla C-64.
On the other other hand it's also somewhat disappointing to see that some coders don't believe in the 9th sprite, which is very real. =) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
So a picture must come with workstages, prooving that it was done out of pure skill of the pixeler himself only. No copy, no wiring, no retouching, thats lame!
Also music copied is frowned upon
... but how about coders ? oh yes, no skill should be involved here, just do some stupid animations all what matters is entertainment of the crowd, they dont know how it was done anyway.
so why not apply this latter principle also to music and gfx ? |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 219 |
So then, don't you think it's easier for someone to just disassemble and snatch other coders super-duper real-time code than mess around with perhaps original animation packing code? No one asks coders for "workstages" i.e. source code...
IMHO work stages are bullshit anyway. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quoting KrillOn the other other hand it's also somewhat disappointing to see that some coders don't believe in the 9th sprite, which is very real. =)
I was thinking back in the Panoramic demo times :) when the displayed/claimed 9th sprite was NOT a 9th sprite. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quoting OswaldSo a picture must come with workstages, prooving that it was done out of pure skill of the pixeler himself only. No copy, no wiring, no retouching, thats lame!
This is not happening in this scene, you must be fucking joking.
Quote:Also music copied is frowned upon
WHAT? This is also not happening, not at parties, cover compos on CSDb, again - no idea what scene you are describing, not this one. |
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