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Knight Rider
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 116 |
Event id #3294 : X-2024
I was having a discussion with a few guys over beers in X'2023 and the compos. I was telling about my days as OR8 pilot in the RC world where we had junior, hobby and pro categories for the races.
To make it abit more motivational the people/groups who aren't 20 members strong each with 30+ years of demo coding experience it might be worth while considering other options ?
eg. some of the ideas we discussed:
. Having a pro (ie previous winner category) and hobby section so that contributors are compared to peers of similar experience
. Splitting the voting/ranking for 1 filers from multi disk entries
. Newcomer award for those individuals or teams who never submitted to X before |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2858 |
Quoting RaistlinI'm not sure that I understand why it would suck.. but I'm sure there's method in the madness - and I think it's been this way for a long time at many of the parties so there must be a good reason for it.. Random has been tried and comes with its own set of problems. The bumpy change quality and effort, as Oswald mentioned, maybe be refreshing to some but annoying to others.
The way it is now (randomised within ordered bins) seems to have the least problems. Watching a compo expecting generally progressively "better" entries has a certain charm.
As for changing compo results, pretty sure a different voting system would have more sway there. Such as ranking entries (with a same-rank option) instead of grading them. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2858 |
Quoting RaistlinSomebody said that each coder/artist/musician should only be in one demo entry .. but if there're 24 entries, that means we need 24 different loaders. You're casually omitting the new-work clause. But anyways, nobody agreed with that suggestion, so better ignore it from now on.
Quoting RaistlinPlus the complication of what happens if 5 demos user Krill loader and then you, Krill, enter your own demo as well? :-) Easy, it'll be a onefiler. =) (Or running on a previously unreleased loader version.) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Raistlin, the order was based on the size of the entries. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2858 |
Quoting TDJRaistlin, the order was based on the size of the entries. Seems like a good proxy for amount of content (size after compression, i take it). Can of course be trolled with some random bits. =) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2858 |
Quoting ChristopherJamI do like the idea of limiting the number of disk sides.. This doesn't seem to happen for X, but it would certainly make it more interesting.
Adding another disk side is cheap these days, and an easy way out for ever more content.
Restricting to two disk sides would pose new and interesting challenges, and yield better comparability of demos.
Development of denser disk encoding schemes and associated tools would be resumed. People would put unrolled code to disk less casually. The sweet spot somewhere in the range between fully real-time and fully-streamed would shift. Etc. =) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1051 |
Quoting KrillQuoting TDJRaistlin, the order was based on the size of the entries. Seems like a good proxy for amount of content (size after compression, i take it). Can of course be trolled with some random bits. =) yes, the demo compo was sorted by entropy. It took me a total of 0.291 seconds to sort the entire demo compo. All other compos are randomized. I call it the burg-method :)
I am extremely happy how it turned out, zero reason to change it, so I won't :) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1995 |
Just hand in the demo _after_ the compo like I did with Drinking Buddies at previous X. :D (Tbh I accidentally placed it in the wrong category and had to beg for it to be shown). |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1051 |
Quoting JackAsserJust hand in the demo _after_ the compo like I did with Drinking Buddies at previous X. :D (Tbh I accidentally placed it in the wrong category and had to beg for it to be shown). I remember :) This actually happened again with 1 entry, but this time the uploader found out before the compo started.
I told em he was in good company and explained you did the same thing, so he shouldn't feel bad ;) |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 453 |
About "pre-sorting" demos: In 2016 when the compo started with Bonzai we in Mayday! thought they forgot our demo XD |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Quoting KrillQuoting TDJRaistlin, the order was based on the size of the entries. Seems like a good proxy for amount of content (size after compression, i take it). Can of course be trolled with some random bits. =) yes, the demo compo was sorted by entropy. It took me a total of 0.291 seconds to sort the entire demo compo. All other compos are randomized. I call it the burg-method :)
I am extremely happy how it turned out, zero reason to change it, so I won't :)
It was sorted by Entropy? The group Wile Coyote used to be part of? So it seems he actually does have some kind of influence on the X-organizers .. All of a sudden I'm taking his suggestions a lot more serious! |
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