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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Who did Killer Games?
This 2001 release - Killer Games - has puzzled me ever since it's release. Obviously it's made by someone who knows his way around a C-64, that's for sure. Just check out the "fire" in the intro, the spritestretchers, the bordercode and the spriteball-effect in the namechoosing screen. He is credited as Beerlord, but that doesn't ring a bell to me.
I'm quite sure that its origin is swedish, to judge from the names found in the intro and the highscore (Umm... Thomas Q, Carl Bildt, Fredrik, Niklas, Kukdavid, etc.) and the greeting to Talon (old member of Paragon).
Some suspicions goes towards old members of Paragon, DCS or Rizing, Quan (who released games under fake-handles before) or just any old swedish scener who got himself a X-1541 cable from STA during the summer of 2001.
The reason why i'm really is interested in this production is because the music really is awesome. Can anybody identify the player? Can anybody give me a lead on this strange production? Swedes? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
cant find this on csdb...upload? :) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
The crack of Killer Games, repacked by Excess, is now available. Take a peek and listen good, ladies and gentlemen. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
pahahaha :=D great stuff :=D
no idea who could have done that though :=) |
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Yoko Tv Inc.
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 68 |
Awesome !
more of that !!
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
I have a slight hint about who made it, not sure if they want me to post it..
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Private Message it then, Henrik. :-) |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
you have mail. |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Iopop had a quite elaborate guess, I think, but I believe I am closer in my suspicions. I've got an increasing trail of evidence leading me to the tracks of the prime-suspect. Right now it's too early to give any comment on this mystery, but know that I will do everything which stands in my power to bring this case to justice. :-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Manfred Trenz did some killer games for sure :) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
I think we can put Manfred Trenz out of the list of suspects. :-)
Right now, my list of suspects are narrowed down to about two people. If anyone of you, good at musicroutines, could take a peek at http://www.c64.org/HVSC/GAMES/G-L/Killer_Games.sid and tell me what the player looks like, i'd be happy. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
It's a CGKOTY player! :-o
That already eliminates all AEINRW suspects, only leaving a handful thousand... ok ok I'm off to work again, before you all put me on ignore... ;-) |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Yes, it's a CGKOTY player. :)
And yes, it seems to be coded by a "clc lda adc"-coder rather than a "lda clc adc"-coder :)
The psid file consists of two related players (perhaps identical, I didn't have a close look), none of which I could recognise at first sight, so I decided to spend a few minutes searching for signature code snippets.
I can report that I found nothing in HVSC #45 that matched these code snippets. Sorry!
/Stefan
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
Should we be looking for PAL or NTSC people? The music routine has some custome coding to the job. Compare the initialisation routine and searching for the hex pattern doesn't yield too many results with many highly improbable. |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Stryyker: I'd definitely say PAL people. (the CGKOTY is a PAL indicator, for example) |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
can you tell if the player is a DMC variant ?
(Im clueless when it comes to player code.. ) |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
CGKOTY = freq tables?
Perhaps it is TMR having a lend of us. |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 898 |
The first time I saw this game was at the Out of Orderia party in 2001.. Somehow this tells me the makers are probably friends of the people attending or organizing there.. maybe that helps :) Also the game has this German or Scandinavian look to it..
/me is a lda clc adc coder, just for the record ;) |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
Not DMC.
Out of Orderia 2001 |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Stryyker: Yup. CGKOTY = B5 - E6 NTSC frequency hi-bytes (as listed in the C64 programmers' reference guide). AEINRW = PAL equivalent.
Edit: My post above claimed that CGKOTY was a PAL indicator. Obviously, that's bollocks :) OTOH, it's not necessarily an NTSC indicator, since it's in the C64PRG. |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
If it is NTSC I was thinking Wyndex but WVL's info makes that not right. |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Since I'm unable to edit my post, I'll correct myself here *spank*:
CGKOTY = C6 - F6 NTSC frequency hi-bytes (as listed in the C64 programmers' reference guide). AEINRW = PAL B5 - E6 frequency hi-bytes.
Nitpicking? Who, me?
It's probably still wrong... Caveat emptor and all that.
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 898 |
Looking in the code, I see one very weird thing that happens over and over..
he's doing :
clc
cmp #$xx
ofcourse the clc is completely unnecessary, so maybe this is a way to track the coder down :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
cmp sets more than just the C bit :) |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
is it compressed? I can imagine clc cmp to make sense then since its $c9 instead of $69 then. hum... iirc. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Hahaha,what a sick game! ROTFLMAO!! 8D
Does feel Swedish indeed.
Can´t be Bacchus though,he only drinks wine. ;) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Things are moving along here. My prime suspect IS by fact a CLC LDA ADC coder! At first I was let down when I just dived into his code in a freezing, until I discovered that I was in a music-routine, and that the LDA CLC ADC derived from an outer source. After checking out the main code it was clear that my prime suspect is a CLC LDA ADC coder.
Doesn't the mystery deepen, ladies and gentlemen! |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
the plot thickens and as I write this I do indeed switch the linewidth in the xfig-plot from 1 to 2. |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Decided to do some more detective work and extract a bit more circumstantial evidence:
Beerlord uses clc lda adc, not lda clc adc
Uses inc $d019 to acknowledge raster irq, but also asl $d019.
Uses "lda $dd00 and #$ ora #$ sta $dd00", not just "lda #$97 sta $dd00". He also sets port direction: "lda $dd02 ora #$03 sta $dd02".
Uses "bit $02" to wait.
Uses lda #$c8 sta $d016, not lda #$08 sta $d016
Uses lda #$15 sta $d018, not lda #$14 sta $d018 (lsb has no effect)
Uses clc cmp ($18 $c9) quite often. This is pointless, and may be used to point out the coder (WVL saw this first). Funny thing is, he doesn't use "clc, cmp abs" ($18 $cd), nor "clc, cpx", nor "clc, cpy". The "clc cmp" code is in the game code and the player code, indicating that Beerlord wrote both. Also, he doesn't seem to clear carry every time he uses the $c9 opcode. It's not in the intro code, for example (except in the music player).
Uses lda #$ff sta $dc0d when restoring interrupts (and not lda #$81)
The assembler used seems to use "BYT" for, e.g., text. (not byte). See $0c00
The assembler uses an exclamation mark as a comment indicator, like so:
jsr $fce2 ! reset
There's a bug in the notetable lo-bytes, but no other HVSC entry has that bug. Ignoring that bug, about 9000 tunes in the HVSC use the same note table -- probably the one from the Programmer's reference guide.
Writes "humour" and "harbour", not "humor" and "harbor": Uses British spelling.
[edit: explicit suspicions removed to make it all the more exciting. Or something.]
/j0x |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: the plot thickens and as I write this I do indeed switch the linewidth in the xfig-plot from 1 to 2.
lol |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
Cool observations j0x, some of mine.
Uses jsr $ffe4 and $ffd2 as often as possible.
Clears $c6 and sets $40 in $c5 (non char.)
Uses $0314/$0315 irq, with jmp $ea31 / jmp $ea81 exits.
The assembler used only makes text as petscii so he subtracts $40 from every char >$40.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
It's official: c64 sceners have way too much free time.
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
TDJ: what is free time? I find myself always working (on something c64 related.) |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
Someone should make an automatic coder detection tool. Learning patterns from the (unpacked) binaries + CSDb-information about credits. ;) Oh yes..
Anyway.. the question is how to proceed from observations of coding style to suspects? After all there are quite a lot of coders. :)
A list of suspects would help making it possible to validate observations against other creations from the same coder. So.. perhaps time to spell that out? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: TDJ: what is free time? I find myself always working (on something c64 related.)
I don't know man, I just like to use difficult sounding words in the hope that it will make me look intelligent. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
LOL.
Why not just contact Stormfront and follow the "paper trail" from there? |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
This detective-work is way more amusing. :-) And as far as I remembered, this was one of those games which either just surfaced on a homepage. I might be wrong, though. Should contact Stormfront about it. |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 440 |
ahout all these $dd00 / $dc0d / $d016 code patterns... have you ever thought that it sometimes makes sense to mask them out and sometimes you just dont care so use absolute values?? just to lead the investigation far away in the wrong direction ;) just a little hint (since coders evolve :D ), if you have a suspect you should check his/her code from the same period... do NOT compare it to early nor later code :) i myself started using absolute values when i started to code coz i simply didnt KNEW about masking out :) later i saw "masked out code" and thought "idiots" :D but thats is nearly 19 years ago by now ;) |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
So it was you, admit it! :D |
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The Phantom
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 360 |
I once did a KILLER game, resembled TETRIS a lot. I mean, A LOT!!!!
Never released it though. Thought with all the TENGEN problems with nintendo, I should keep it to myself... So now.. It's lost.. Somewhere out there is my version of tetris...
The TENGEN version WAS the best.. Admit it.. Know it.. Always fear it.. |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 440 |
@Steppe: Success :) i led you in the wrong direction ;) |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
Damn, why did i begin to read this thread!? Any more clues? Twoflower, who do you suspect? TELL ME!! =) |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
..have no idea who made killer games, although i found it quite good fun. The level where the person is being slowly grinded into a pot was fun. Imagine that with really serious graphics. A blood splatered dungeon, like some scene out of (the rather over hyped) Hostel the film. |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Perhaps it's time to reveal some suspicions:
The examinators are now following the lead on the (in swedish) so-called "Rönningespåret". "Rönningespåret" is based on the fact that people mentioned in the scrolltexts and in memory are swedes, or atleast (by a funny coincidence) only people with swedish names. The reason why it's called "Rönningespåret" is that Talon is greeted. Talon was a member of the old swedish group Paragon, and is living in Rönninge, in a suburb of Stockholm. For you who aren't aware of that, Rönningescenen is a legendary cluster of sceners with connections to many Swedish groups.
Our main suspect is a person (who we by reasons of the integrity of the investigaton can't reveal) with closeties to "Rönningegänget". We have reasons to believe that he knows the aforementioned Talon. What furthermore binds him to the evidence is that his codestyle, in certain cases, binds him to Killer Games. More investigations need to be followed to its end first, and confrontations with the suspects and additional interviews are yet to be done. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
The plot thickens. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
knowing nothing and reading the facts posted here so far. My money is on a Swedish based c64 coder. But why hide their own name? |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 898 |
I still want to know wtf Beerlord is ;) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Me too, although he hasn't revealed himself... yet. But as the scene-bloodhounds we are, we are closing in to you Beerlord, your killer games won't go unnoticed forever. Track by track, sector by sector - we're gonna pin you down, sucker. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Anytime soon? |
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cavey
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 68 |
indeed! It's gotten far too interesting now! The suspense!
Almost
can't...
bear it! |
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Talon
Account closed
Registered: May 2007
Posts: 11 |
Hello.
Cool to see this thread. Beerlord will be amused.
Yours truly
/T |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Damn. :-) Was that the real Talon? Oh my. We might be closer to a solution then.
Anyway - I confronted my main suspect, HCL of Booze Design (aka. David Malmborg) on BFP 2007 about Beerlord and the Rönninge-trail. As expected he denied everything and wanted to take a peek on the files in question. The reason he was my prime suspect was the codestyle, the fact that he is a more than decent musician and that he coded his own players. Furthermore - he made his comeback on the scene with Soul at about the same time that Beerlord released Killer Games.
However - HCL looked honestly surprised and told me that he wasn't the guy I was looking for. He suspected Staiger to be the prime suspect since he was a more than decent coder related to Rönningescenen and that his name was Niklas - a name which is mentioned in the Killer Games highscorefile.
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Talon
Account closed
Registered: May 2007
Posts: 11 |
Hi again!
I re-played Killer games the other day - it sure is a cool game!
The creator of the thread mentioned the music in his initial post, and i agree totally. It is real, cool c64 music, and perfect for the game.. (hehe, the reggae-ish tune at the schoolyard shooting scene :-) )
The music and its player are done by Beerlord as well (He is a multi-talented person indeed!) Maybe this is a useful clue too, as to who he is?
It seems he wants to stay "Beerlord", so I can't just write out his name. Too bad, he deserves some recognition i think.
Best regards
/T |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 898 |
So the story continues ;) time to look at that killer games code again and check some more suspects :D |
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EwenG
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 6 |
Hmm, BEERLORD ... That reminds me of a certain German group using "funny" nicks ;) |
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 440 |
for music and code i throw psycho in the scale... talon?
EDIT: And hey, BEERLORD, any swede could fulfill ;) |
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Talon
Account closed
Registered: May 2007
Posts: 11 |
Ahhh, not Psycho. Sorry.
/T |
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Talon
Account closed
Registered: May 2007
Posts: 11 |
Woo! Beerlord coming in (he says)! |
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beerlord
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2009
Posts: 4 |
Hello all, and thank you for this thread. Laughed my ass off xD |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
Killer Games is precisely the sort of C64 games that makes sense to play in these days I think. Sometimes I load it when a not-so-much-into-c64-friend is visiting, and people always enjoy it.
I think it is nice not to know who did it. It adds to the weird and nice feeling when loading this game.
Horray! |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Just as criminals often return to the crimescene, our masked mysteryman (eg. Beerlord) finally comes here to taunt the investigators, some three years after the initial creation of this thread - perhaps the most mysterious and riddled thread so far on this forum?!
Now, quick - somebody trace his IP. :-) |
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beerlord
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2009
Posts: 4 |
Alas, that is of no use.
I post via a chain of forgotten proxy, backdoored server and personal rootkitted pc.
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Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 411 |
2f: Mileages do vary ;) My vote for the most mysterious thread is about some people secretly trying to do UFLI max. |
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cavey
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 68 |
Hmm, 8 years down the road, are you any closer to settling this investigation 2f? |
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
http://csdb.dk/release/?id=39382&show=trivia#trivia |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2583 |
Ah, what a pity - R.I.P. :-(
Did he ever do anything else than this game, then? Klegg? |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
If what Klegg posted is true, there are very few options. The only person which was on my list of suspects and which passed away in 2013 was Mogwai/Paragon.
EDIT: No, I was wrong - Klegg posted this in 2012. |
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Klegg
Registered: Feb 2006
Posts: 16 |
As far as I know he didn't make (or at least release) anything else than this.
The singer in a band that I play with knew him pretty well, that's how I got to meet him. I didn't realize that he was Beerlord until after though.. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
Whoever did this, it's a great game. One of the veeeery few that I play from time to time. :) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 898 |
This still haunts me at night! Reveal yourself beerlord!! |
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McMeatLoaf
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 108 |
If you *really* need to know, there are genealogists' tools available. |
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ice00
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 54 |
As a tribute to the author, here his music enginee reverse enginnered (after reading this thread last days): DIS file
File require JC64Dis so you can see the source in the assembler format you like (it will be in next version as example file in case this link will no work forever)
Tune 1 uses an advanced version of his player, while alle the others uses a previous version |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Perhaps it is time to wrap this up and present what I recall of my final findings:
As Klegg pointed out earlier, the real name of Beerlord was David. I managed to locate his full identity in 2014 after following the trail a bit further - the combination Beerlord and David turned up in a (now defunct) computer-related forum where he revealed his full name in the user-info.
After googling his name in combination with Commodore, I found an essay written at (the now also defunct) Högskolan på Gotland which - if I remember correctly - dealt with problem solving in ML on Commodore computers. Right there I knew I was on the right track. I then stumbled over his posts at Lemon 64 where Lasse Öörni helped him out with some details regarding game-programming. This was clearly the guy.
To summarize: Beerlord seem to have been a scene-hangaround from Stockholm, aware of the scene but not taking an active part of it (atleast not in later years). A talented musician making his own music routune and a programmer managing to pull off a bizarre game. What's worse - back then I could trace his onlinepresence through different forums but in 2011 everything went cold. I have every reason to believe that Kleggs statement of him passing away in 2011 is true. I got quite sad coming to the conclusion and didn't really feel like posting it back then. Sorry for that. |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 898 |
That's sad to hear. I'll play some Killer Games in his legacy. |
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McMeatLoaf
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 108 |
If I've found the right David (living in Stockholm, same year of death, programmer)
he was involved in e-commerce with his cousin, and sadly struggled with mental health in his final years:
https://skyltmax.se/detsynsinte (in Swedish) |
