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Forums > C64 Coding > Sprite Multiplexing - Myth Busted ?
2004-12-12 19:12
Fix

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 54
Sprite Multiplexing - Myth Busted ?

Many many years ago when I first saw the amazing effect were you have more than 8 sprites at same time I were thrilled.

Don't have a clue who did the first spritemultiplex routine.

A master brain wizard who have found another cool bug in the vic ii chip.


Or maybe not ?

Some time ago I actually read whole my programmers reference manual, where I found an very interesting notice in the sprite chapter were they says it's possible to have more than 8 sprites at same time using advanced technics, and some pages later it does tell you how to do this effect with raster interupt waiting.

It does not exactly tells you how, but it tells you it can be done.

Some my thought here,

Then Commodore Did know this feature already from start ?

Is it a bug or a feature that the designers added ?

Is there other cool routines that actually Commodore knew and wrote about ?


Or is this already known for the last 15 years ?
 
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2005-02-02 15:58
Ben
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163
Quote: oh no not that discussion again.

Did I miss posts? Anyway, my opinion is not open for any discussion..
2005-02-02 16:13
Graham
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Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990
yes i know. still 99.9% of the scene will agree that sprite multiplexing is "reuseing sprites on the same frame". the sorting method used does not matter.
2005-02-02 16:17
enthusi

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 661
if keep out the sorting there is nothing left to 'invent' since its no new idea at all :)
Which is btw. my opinion - spritemultiplexer are neither bug nor invention.
2005-02-02 16:18
Ben
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Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163
Quote: yes i know. still 99.9% of the scene will agree that sprite multiplexing is "reuseing sprites on the same frame". the sorting method used does not matter.


All I mean to say is that when we come to talk of the 'effect multiplexer', that I'd say an operation (changes in location) makes ordinary plexing one..
2005-02-03 22:44
Death Demon
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68
Ben, I'm confused by your terminology. What is "ordinary plexing"? A multiplexing operation has a single output and chooses between multiple inputs. In the case of sprite multiplexing, you are choosing between several x/y locations and possibly several sprite pointers. You can also multiplex between sprite data, but you won't be able to get as many sprites on the screen at the same time.


Cruzer : You sure it was only 120? I thought I remembered someone in Europe having done > 200 (thought it was 256) a very long time ago. I think he had all the borders off too and placed sprites in the borders. He was updating positions on the raster line as well so that once he got done drawing sprite 0, he moved it to the right. Can't remember though as it's been over a decade since I've done anything.
2005-02-03 23:04
Graham
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990
there is a difference between sprite splitting and sprite multiplexing. sprite splitting is using a sprite and change x-position during sprite display. this way you get the impression of max 21 "objects" which are in fact just one sprite. but this is not counted as multiplexing since it does not multiplex a sprite.

since sprites of a c64 are 21 pixels high, you can do max. 112 sprites on a frame. 120 if you also count sprites which are on two frames at the same time...

crossbow did a little routine to shrink the sprite height and made a 144 sprites multiplexer with that, so the record of real sprite multiplexing is 144.

those records which have 200 and more "sprites" in fact often only have a third of that amount of real multiplexed sprites... 60 to 80.
2005-02-04 01:24
Death Demon
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68
That's really a misuse of terminology. But what did we really know when we came up with the terminology in the first place? In any event, a multiplex operation is one in which you choose between multiple inputs to go to a single output. Be it X, Y, or sprite data.
2005-02-04 09:20
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4692
definiton of multiplexing: Combining multiple signals (analog or digital) for transmission over a single line or channel.

We have one sprite (input) and you get multiple outputs of the same sprite. so multiple output from single input. in other words you make a lot of things from one thing. Definitly doesnt fits the definition above. But who gives a fuck ?

how about starting a topic about dycps ? must be just as interesting as this one.
2005-02-04 09:41
TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1876
It's an anti-multiplexer!

Now people, for those who think this discussion is tiresome, why not just shut up about it and let those involved have their fun, hmm?
2005-02-04 16:14
Death Demon
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68
If you use the same sprite data, then you are doing what's called "Address Multiplexing". You are altering the X/Y address for the sprite. Choosing between several X/Y values for a single X/Y storage register. Since the addresses here are related to the sprite, the technique would still be called Sprite Multiplexing. Make sense?
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