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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Event id #3436 : $81 Music Compo 2024
You may surely remember one of the most inventive and fresh competitions around here - $11 Music Compo, organized 6 years ago by Isildur/Samar, as well as its later $21 edition launched by Eric Dobek. As some time has already passed, why not give another waveform a little spin? Let's try $81 and MAKE SOME NOISE!
Basic Info:
- Deadline for entry submission is July 31, 2024 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm).
- Voting closes on Sunday, August 4, 2024 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm).
- Voting platform is CSDb but eventually votes will be processed with a trusty algorithm, proven reliable in couple of older compos.
- Main prize is CSDb fame and prestige.
Rules:
- Compositions can only use waveforms $80 and above (so it's safe to assume you gotta stay negative xD) but $00, $01, $08 and $09 will be pardoned, especially if music player doesn't give musician any other choice.
- Highest allowed multispeed ratio is 16x. With this particular waveform, multispeed is truly a handy tool to achieve more diverse results but limit is imposed to avoid threading in digis territory.
- Filtering can be freely used.
- No covers are allowed.
- Only single chip is permitted.
- Entry must be handed in as executable .prg (which might be embedded in .t64 or .d64) and additionally .sid. Preferably both ;)
- Contestants can submit as many entries as they like but entry has to be at least 2 minutes long composition - you can do better than a short test loop, right? ;) No upper time limit, though.
Rule set might expand if compo related discussion leads to it. Let's not, preferably.
Tips and Tricks:
- One of the most handy techniques for this compo is noise LFSR reset which orders noise wave to play pseudo random seed from the very beginning. To perform it, you need to write a sequence like this to waveform register - $91, $89, $81. It's very effective especially at higher multispeed ratios.
- If Goat Tracker 2 is your weapon of choice, $91 might be set already as 1st Frame Wave variable to perform restart cycle one frame earlier and not to waste wave table frames on it.
- 6581 filter distortion might turn out interesting tool at disposal if you go for the old one, especially combined with LFSR restart.
Good luck and have fun! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
I suggest at looking at how viznut abused the vic to create custom waveforms
this could get interesting <3 |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 89 |
A bit of a warning: Apparently doing noise reset will sound different between chips (I don't know if this is dependent on revision).
Here are a few examples using a tune that uses noise reset at the very beginning:
http://oakvalley.textfiles.com/oakvalley/soasc/hvsc/061/FLAC/MU..
http://oakvalley.textfiles.com/oakvalley/soasc/hvsc/061/FLAC/MU..
http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/media/Oakvalley/soasc/hvsc/061/FLA..
http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/media/Oakvalley/soasc/hvsc/061/FLA.. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Interesting that R2 and R5 manifest very similar behaviour - the only significant difference is voltage/amplitude ;) |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 89 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvO0ic43Ln0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJJ7LTyJD3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3gpN7fbq88
8580 may be more stable, though. All the real HW recordings I've found sound very similar. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
If done correctly there should be no difference between the chips (but i doubt you can do it with something like goattracker) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting chatGPZIf done correctly there should be no difference between the chips (but i doubt you can do it with something like goattracker)
What are the requirements to make it stable across revisions? What's minimal interval between writes? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
I can't answer that - have a look at the LFSR test programs in the VICE test repository. |
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trident
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 91 |
this sound like it could be an interesting compo! are there any existing examples of tunes only made with the noise waveform? just to get an idea of what to expect from this compo.
(i am sort of guessing that there is a lot of sid magic that people have been doing with the noise waveform that doesn't sound at all like noise.) |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 89 |
Isn't noise only, but does reset noise at audible intervals: https://youtu.be/qmj-KG7CWX4?si=9IChS8pu-IJFRO2_ |
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Stinsen
Registered: Feb 2012
Posts: 74 |
Cool idea! Waiting for the MSL pwnage as usual. :D
I tried something, but gave up, things sounded really cool in GT, but can't get the filter+noise to give me any proper notes in sidplay/vice and barely on real HW.
Looking forward to the compo though, I feel this is gonna be a good one. <3 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
as for GT, someone would have to produce a build that contains the latest reSID so it actually works like it should :) using a recent VICE should be fine (to be safe use the development build, i don't remember exactly when the last related fixes were merged) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
-I3 switch for regular GT2 run commandline enables the latest reSID it has included. Believe me, even some top guys skipped that little detail till this day and GT2 by default sounds almost as shitty as GT1 did (no difference above $60 cutoff and wrong waveform restarts to name a few). No idea how they did sound that awesome so far without having a full control over crucial playback aspects :D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
But even that version is kinda old... :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting chatGPZBut even that version is kinda old... :)
And closer to what I hear on real 8580 than Vice 3.8 (minus the ADSR quirks) ;) I out signal via SidFx, though, so that might affect output and my judgement. |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 89 |
Last time I used it, VICE has weird 8580 filter defaults. GT2 8580 is pretty good, but is less resonant than most 8580s. Most accurate I think is sidplayfp. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
You're right on resonance. And emulation is better and better in department of actual SID behaviour but somehow overall sound colour and characteristics (which harmonics dominate, sharpness in high end etc.) seem to deviate more from real chip than it used to. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
It is *much* closer to real chips than it ever was before.
And filters are different. On every chip, and even every different hardware. Usually Caps have 10% Tolerance to begin with. Etc pp.
In any case, if you expect ancient emulation to be useful for this compo: good luck :) (edit: that applies to both reSID and reSIDfp - that LFSR fix was only applied recently to both) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting chatGPZIt is *much* closer to real chips than it ever was before.
And filters are different. On every chip, and even every different hardware. Usually Caps have 10% Tolerance to begin with. Etc pp.
In any case, if you expect ancient emulation to be useful for this compo: good luck :) (edit: that applies to both reSID and reSIDfp - that LFSR fix was only applied recently to both)
I assure you I'm hardly any surprised while checking stuff on real HW ;) ADSR quirks and oscillator leak were honorary exceptions ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
Not sure what you are trying to say :) |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 482 |
Jammer: can you point out a tune that sound different on real 8580 than on recent VICE 8580? I'd love to check that out. I'm not as versatile as you in sound programming, but it would be good to know anyways (maybe for the future) :-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
(pls open another thread for VICE bickering, preferably even report the problems the proper way)
More on topic: https://github.com/LeifBloomquist/VICMIDI/blob/master/Docs/wave..
Something along these lines is probably doable using SID too |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 89 |
Seems to require speeds over 16x, though. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
Yes, i doubt anything interesting like that can be done with regular players. |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 476 |
i have created something in goat tracker that sounds like a chopped-up fm-didgeridoo, but in sidplay, it sounds like merzbow recording himself munching on a box of weetabix. which version should people base their vote on in the end? :) |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
Quote: i have created something in goat tracker that sounds like a chopped-up fm-didgeridoo, but in sidplay, it sounds like merzbow recording himself munching on a box of weetabix. which version should people base their vote on in the end? :)
10! |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Eh, people of little faith ;) Whatever Groepaz says, setting or not setting I3 in GT2 makes night and day difference in what you get as a preview. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
Quote:setting or not setting I3 in GT2 makes night and day difference in what you get as a preview.
Of course it does - but you still will not get accurate LFSR behaviour. Which might not matter much with GT (because it does not allow cycle exact register banging anyway) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting chatGPZWhich might not matter much with GT (because it does not allow cycle exact register banging anyway)
Yup, and 16x is not the greatest resolution for accurate harmonies. Heart ached a little while writing down this rule but the only concern were digi entries. Otherwise, I'd leave a room for nice custom player ideas :) Or maybe this rule should be ignored? What do you, guys, think? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
"source must be included"
easy enough to spot digis then |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 443 |
Rules are rules, but just want to point out that some variable timer irq sid register manipulation can make interesting effects even if not used as "digis". Needs a bit of coding though. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 460 |
anyone closer to the guy care to approach Mahoney and ask for a signed copy of Noise Tracker for a 1st prize? :) |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 939 |
So no one is going to use single speed? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting MixerRules are rules, but just want to point out that some variable timer irq sid register manipulation can make interesting effects even if not used as "digis". Needs a bit of coding though.
That's why I'm really wavering on 16x limit. Rules don't exclude variable intervals by any means, though ;) |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
In my opinion, it should be either single-speed or whatever-speed. 16x feels arbitrary and if "no digis" is meant to be the rule, they'd probably get spotted anyway if used. If not, then that would allow for some constructive-as-usual discussion afterwards. Which might be insightful in way. ;-) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
You guys do have point and it was questionable right from the start. Hereby ratio limit of 16x multispeed changes into:
- Any playback rate is allowed with caveat against using rapid $d418 update to produce digis.
Does it make sense? :) Actually, I'm quite dying to learn how digi playback would sound based on noise manipulation but potential $d418 aid misses the purpose of whole compo. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Cool, time to test defMON in meth speeds then. :-D |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1066 |
Make Some Noise!
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 89 |
Damn, right when I'm starting to work on a 16x tune... |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting acrouzetDamn, right when I'm starting to work on a 16x tune...
You won't get more out of the usual editors anyway, will you? :)
And in the meantime we have the first, steaming hot entry! <3
Machine World |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 81 |
/me gonna hammer straight on Laxity's door "multispeed feature in SF2 pleeeeeeeeeeze". Also, insert Puss In Boots guilt trip look here.
Actually, I'm wondering what's doable in 1x speed and might spend sleepless nights to find it out. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting vincenzo/me gonna hammer straight on Laxity's door "multispeed feature in SF2 pleeeeeeeeeeze". Also, insert Puss In Boots guilt trip look here.
Actually, I'm wondering what's doable in 1x speed and might spend sleepless nights to find it out.
How about SID Wizard? |
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The Syndrom
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 58 |
Quote: /me gonna hammer straight on Laxity's door "multispeed feature in SF2 pleeeeeeeeeeze". Also, insert Puss In Boots guilt trip look here.
Actually, I'm wondering what's doable in 1x speed and might spend sleepless nights to find it out.
this is as far as I get with singlespeed. was just curious aswell, but won't have time to do more...
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/SID%20Happens/81soundtest.s.. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
For me the compo would be much more interesting allowing just 1x. At 13x it becomes much more closer to just creating approximations of samples and other waves.
So my constructive criticism would go the exact opposite way, I guess.
EDIT. Mibri's entry is excellent for example, but where is the noise there? ;) |
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Mibri
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 213 |
At risk of sounding pedantic, literally at the beginning and also at the end ad infinitum/nauseum. :D |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting wacekFor me the compo would be much more interesting allowing just 1x.
Compo would end up strictly rhythm based with all entries being almost the samey. Let's leave it as it is :D |
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Mibri
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 213 |
Yes, it's designated '$81-only' rather than 'noise-only', and I think that's by design for musical reasons. The 'just' in 'just creating approximations of samples and other waves' might suggest that to do so is a piece of cake, which wasn't my own experience at all - I found it very, very challenging (but fun!)
Less talk and more tunes now please, folks. Don't make me beg. :D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
I'd still really like to hear what a cycle exact custom player can do :) (Did someone tell LFT about this?) |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
I kinda see where Wacek is coming from. More than become-creative-with-a-noise-waveform $81 compo, it's somewhat pigeonholed into creative-LFSR-reset $81 compo, unless you want to castrate your results to "strictly rhythm based with all entries being almost the samey". But whatever the "proper" name for this compo would be, it's still a fun challenge and I'm happy it's being organized. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Mibri and others, again - great tunes, don't get defensive. The compo will bring some great SIDs for sure, keep it going.
Quoting MibriYes, it's designated '$81-only' rather than 'noise-only', and I think that's by design for musical reasons.
So in a way the compo title is kinda misleading, eh? Because everyone know what is $81 wave, and probably only a few sound-engineering afficionados knew before the compo that you can use it to generate other waveforms ;) Also, due to this I consider this more 'technical' than 'musical'.
Quote:The 'just' in 'just creating approximations of samples and other waves' might suggest that to do so is a piece of cake
I have no idea what it _might_ be suggesting, if you're asking the person writing it, it _is_not_ suggesting that at all.
And I appreciate f7sus4 catching my original intent ;) Painful limitations give birth to extraordinary, not stifle it. We kinda know that making shit on this obsolete platform, eh? ;) |
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Mibri
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 213 |
All good man, and thanks for listening! |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
1st world problems ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
Nothing is stopping you from making an awesome singlespeed tune using just $81 in music assembler :) |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Quoting chatGPZNothing is stopping you from making an awesome singlespeed tune using just $81 in music assembler :)
Unfortunately, there is a lot of stuff stopping me personally at the moment, but you're correct in your sentiment of putting the money where the mouth is :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11290 |
Quote:Unfortunately, there is a lot of stuff stopping me personally at the moment
Yes - i'd also like to knock up some code, but due to being in a tight schedule for another (work) project right now, that probably wont happen :( |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1641 |
Interesting compo so far!
Quote:votes will be processed with a trusty algorithm
What algorithm is that? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting FranticWhat algorithm is that?
(10 * A^2 + 9 * B^2 + 8 * C^2 + 7 * D^2 + 6 * E^2 + 5 * F^2 + 4 * G^2 + 3 * H^2 + 2 * I^2 + J^2) / (A^2 + B^2 + C^2 + D^2 + E^2 + F^2 + G^2 + H^2 + I^2 + J^2)
Simple formula - it just favours popular votes and weakens single ones. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Only one week left for submissions! Still waiting for some big surprise wtf bomb... š |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 482 |
Quoting JammerOnly one week left for submissions! Still waiting for some big surprise wtf bomb... š
No bomb, but a little 1x flame by moi. ā¤ļø
There you go: Simple 1x $81 |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 482 |
Sorry for my boring votes. But I really can't be bothered to make a "compo vote" now and change them to the "correct" ones afterwards.
But the quality of all of the tunes makes it extremely hard to differ – plus the "me-problem", that I honestly love everything that makes sound – I had a blast when I got a MRI lately because of all the wonderful sounds those machines play :-) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
It's the very last day to MAKE SOME NOISE! |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 443 |
I think this compo is the best thing that has happened to SID. You guys are true artists. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting MixerI think this compo is the best thing that has happened to SID. You guys are true artists.
I'd say topic has only been scratched so far but, hey, there' still 4 hours left to get surprised :D |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Deadline for compo submissions is CLOSED!
Voting phase ends on Sunday, August 4, 2024 at 23:59:59 (11:59:59 pm) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
$81 Music Compo 2024 has hereby concluded! Official results are here:
$81 Music Compo 2024 - official results
Huge round of applause for all participants who submitted their amazing entries and tackled demanding technical issue like pros. Thank you from the bottom of heart goes to Booker who took care of voting backend and kept his eye on things staying intact. Finally, thanks to all voters who spent their precious time on listening to all entries and sharing their opinion.
See you next time! <3 |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 482 |
Tbh I'm glad we musicians got $81 off our list ;-)
If I'm not mistaken we can all prepare now / look forward to "$41 only" – which would be a great relief for participants as well as listeners :-) |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 89 |
Syndrom has proved that $01 is possible though... |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Quoting spider-jTbh I'm glad we musicians got $81 off our list ;-)
There can always be 2nd edition, you know xD |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3038 |
Congrats to everyone. I was just watching, listening from distance and I enjoyed what you have produced. Thumbs up. |
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Mibri
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 213 |
That was fun! Enjoyed making my entries and enjoyed listening to everyone else's. :) |
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McMeatLoaf
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 107 |
Quote: Tbh I'm glad we musicians got $81 off our list ;-)
If I'm not mistaken we can all prepare now / look forward to "$41 only" – which would be a great relief for participants as well as listeners :-)
"$41 only"? Enter Censor Design :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5074 |
fantastic entries, highly entertaining compo, thank you. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1333 |
Hopefully, this time results won't vanish after a while as sheet picks data from reliable source. |
