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2017-12-21 09:21

Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486

Release id #160941 : LuftrauserZ +5D [cartridge]

Am I wrong or is this the first time a "crack" is released on normal cartridge? Easyflash is quite common. In times of real hardware and mail or BBS swapping it did not make sense ofcourse.
Unfortunately you cannot auto-run .crt images because this suffix is commonly related to certificates.

... 3 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2017-12-21 17:51

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723

EF is more widely spread to use with whatever crt you want, so EF is the way to go (saving hiscore to the cart and erase the releae and exchange it to whatever you want etc). But still the disk-versions is the thing. And what counts.

2017-12-21 20:10

Tim
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467

Didi, thats an interesting question, but to be honest I do not know. True or not, your question does put a satisfying [x] in the box for us in Excess. We had a few resolutions for 2017, one of them being to move away from certain comfort zones. That means taking some gambles, trying new things, step on/over a few rules/lines.. and sure.. making some mistakes along the way too.. trying too many things at once is probably one of them.

Theres a couple of things Ill try covering in this post combined.. I did not want to open a forum thread for it myself, but since its here I will gladly take some time to write the following:

IMHO, there are no bad mistakes if you are willing to reflect on them and learn, had we not rolled the dice a few times this year, there would not have been a cartridge release on the table at all.. We knew not everyone would appreciate it, and thats ok - we did it because it is the version we wanted to make, and both the +5 CRT, and the bug-fix version (fixing the bug Hedning found, which turned out to be in all versions currently available) are both releases we are proud of.

Does a CRT or EF replace disk?
My initial response simply is no.. When Triad came out with the IFFL, I just wanted to go out and buy the boys a round of beers, what a top job! We knew it was possible having worked on the cartridge, but even before Triads release we knew there were other teams looking into the title, and based on what we had already done so far, we poured our efforts into getting an EF version ready planned to have a side-by-side CRT and EF release. About 2-3 days later the 3AD disk came out, and we put out the +5 cart that was ready for 2 days so that we could work on the EF in a slightly slower pace instead of continuing working deep into the nights as some of the guys had been doing for days.

Im guessing a large part of scene town will share Hednings opinion that a disk version is what counts; tradition, points, the actual headache of getting all that data somehow to the game, etc.

That said, and please keep in mind that my heart loves the 3ad version, find two or three friends and actually go and play the game on disk and cartridge and compare responses. Probably what stuns me most is that I am actually going to agree with Groepaz for the first time in 2017.. indeed.. for actual playing, the crt is simply much more convenient. And that is exactly what we had in mind when we decided to go for the cartridge version.

I have to thank Baracuda actually, for showing me several niche parts of c64 users in early 2017 that I had long forgotten: user based forums, retro meetings, etc. which even led me to simply visit a few meetings myself and have a fun day.. just seeing groups of non sceners re-discover a c64 game you let them play is such a great experience.

So no.. CRT/EF will not replace our love for disk versions, obviously part of Excess will be to follow suit in the cracker scene, and running points is a natural task if you want to play that game. However you can be sure that Excess will put some serious time, energy and effort into well done cartridge versions.

It might not be a massive step forward such as going from cassettes to disk, but with everybody now able to enjoy cartridges relatively easy we believe its a medium worth exploring and supporting and hope to see other teams shift more into that space too.

2017-12-21 23:14

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723

Don't forget the obvious reason in this case: it's easier to put it out as a crt. ;)

2017-12-22 00:47

Tim
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467

Assuming you mean disc vs. cart?

This particular case I dont think so.. all time spent considered, had it not been building experience for the team and type of release, a disc version would have definitely been a better investment of time.
In general though, I genuinely hope you are right.

We will have to see if the experience of a few more titles under our belt speeds up the process to a point where I dont have to worry if there will be long term affects to members sanity ;)

2017-12-22 14:03

Mr.Ammo
Account closed

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228

Quoting Tim

We will have to see if the experience of a few more titles under our belt speeds up the process to a point where I dont have to worry if there will be long term affects to members sanity ;)

At this point I can't help but to wonder if you keep your crackers in a basement without any daylight, food, water and fresh air: just to release a few cracks. Should we start worrying too? ;-)

2017-12-22 15:51

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11366

Quote:

keep your crackers in a basement without any daylight, food, water and fresh air

seems legit

2017-12-22 21:57

TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2220

yeah them lazy bastards... worse than musicians!

oh wait, I'm the only idiot still doing cracks in my group? not fair xD

seriously, indeed it's sometimes a matter of luck which group has someone lurking around with a few days or at least an evening off OR some ori supply months ahead of ori release date OR none of those, so no statwanking cigar, no victory cigarette... but BTT as the CRT or EF won't grant any points anyway... *shrug*

2017-12-23 01:25

Tim
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467

Mr.Ammo
rofl.. wait I think there was water, must check ;)

TheRyk:
sure, there's no points on a cart versions, see it as an athlete competing in multiple disciplines separately (so not as a decathlon).. and right now the idea of doing both is fun to do.

Do we think there should be points?
Well, I personally would not want to see it mixed with traditional first releases. That would be wrong in so many ways, much like having a soccer team playing a waterpolo team just because both sports have goals and a ball.

For the moment, we consider carts to be a way to explore a path we haven't been down and do some solid releases that users will like playing.

Oh and I understand the plain vanilla stock c64 idea all too well, but go to, say facebook (easiest I could think of) and find average joe's question "hi, I am new here.. what should I buy now to play some games".

The answer will be 1541U or SD2IEC, which are both fine answers if the main goal is to play games, it's 'just' a bunch of storage mediums, like carts are too.

And then there's the challenge perspective.. there is literally zero fun in slapping an intro on a preview that you happen to download from csdb first.. zero.

note: that's in no way a complaints, it's just pointing out the fact that it's rare to find anyone who finds them functional, entertaining or worthwhile in any way.

Yes we have done it, and most likely will continue to do so despite csdb visitors not liking it, as it's part of the points race, it's functional.. but that does not make it fun.. and fun is needed too :)

2017-12-23 02:37

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11366

Quote:

Yes we have done it, and most likely will continue to do so despite csdb visitors not liking it, as it's part of the points race, it's functional.. but that does not make it fun..

does not compute

2017-12-23 08:12

Tim
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467

Quote: Quote:
Yes we have done it, and most likely will continue to do so despite csdb visitors not liking it, as it's part of the points race, it's functional.. but that does not make it fun..

does not compute

well, I sit in traffic jams to go from A to B too some times.. doesn't mean I like it ;)

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