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Forums > CSDb Entries > Release id #47904 : Joe Gunn Preview

2007-03-24 19:01

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5028

Release id #47904 : Joe Gunn Preview

Now what was the fucking idea with releasing this? Showing your packer using, cruncher and introlinking skills? Triad was the name for quality for me. Now Triad equals a bunch of fucking lamers not being able to do anything but put intros in front of non protected games, games that are not even finished, games that are made for fun, and for free. You didnt even needed a first supplier, just downloaded it added an intro... for what fucking reason?

Stop being lame and releasing shite under the triad label.

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2007-03-26 21:07

Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2854

What i find very interesting is that very few people actually seem to be capable of a mature discussion. And this pretty much fits the picture with the whining about getting old that i witness on irc pretty often.

Anyways, the only halfway acceptable argument i've seen here was the thing that releasing the preview like this gives it some attention it wouldn't have gained otherwise. But then, wouldnt it be enough to just upload/link the vanilla game here, just like that, without any intro or so?

And i really would like to know why EOB preview wasnt introlinked so far.. :) Maybe because it was already linked here? Or because there are some personal reasons, just because Jackasser knows certain people personally? :)

2007-03-26 21:11

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

I don't care about previews, never have, never will, but that also means that it doesn't bug me at all that they are released in the form they are.

But what I don't get is the sudden 'demoscene bashing'. In my eyes there is much more creativity in that scene than in the cracking scene. I might be wrong, but hey, I call 'm as I see 'm ;)

Also, bringing forward that opinion is even stranger considering that we're talking about Triad here, about the most creative demo-group today. Fungus my man, I love you, but next time try not to attack a whole group of persons just because one of us says something you don't agree with, pretty please?

2007-03-26 21:46

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

Oswald's stupidity is just lack of experience. He can be forgiven for this. He is also known for his whining on many other topics also, some of which I even agree with. But when someone states things about something they have clearly no understanding of. It does get a little ridiculous.

Some of the comments here give me further motivation for releasing Recollection and sharing our memories, not in the hope making people convert to a certain way of thinking but to justify the position of a group of people. A tradition.

I'm really surprised by the lack of knowledge these days or maybe it is more the GAP between sections in the scene, it used to be so much closer back in the nineties even. Now the seperation appears greater than ever.

2007-03-27 01:31

A Life in Hell
Account closed

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 204

Quote: In our case, releasing previews (and full games too) isn't solely about training and introlinking even if it might look that way. Please be aware that for each release we make, several hours is spent on playing through the game looking for bugs and errors occuring both from tampering with the game and bugs which were present in the original. Take Stranded for example, where a quite dumb bug made it impossible to see the endsequence. Without testing the game for hours with and without trainers, this bug wouldn't have been noticed. In the case of Joe Gunn, we've been three people testplaying the great little game, exploring most options, for 2-3 hours each. I firmly believe such efforts are worth something.

See, I actually find myself siding with the illegal scene on this one - odd, I know, but I really do find a value in shit like bugfixing, trainers, onefiling, and so on. But then, maybe I'm just an idiot who has nothing to contribute.

2007-03-27 04:04

Trazan

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620

Amen to that Alih!

2007-03-27 06:47

Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629

Both demo coders and REAL crackers put a tremendous amount of effort into thier work. To dis on each for it is just plain retarded...

I worked both sides of the fence, the creativity is just centered around two entirely different things. The depth of knowledge that can be attained is the same.

It all depends on how much work you put into it.

Oswald: Why not channel all this energy of yours into something usefull...

Krill: Your holyer than thou attitude is starting to get annoying. Chill out bro.

2007-03-27 06:47

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5028

Quote: Oswald's stupidity is just lack of experience. He can be forgiven for this. He is also known for his whining on many other topics also, some of which I even agree with. But when someone states things about something they have clearly no understanding of. It does get a little ridiculous.

Some of the comments here give me further motivation for releasing Recollection and sharing our memories, not in the hope making people convert to a certain way of thinking but to justify the position of a group of people. A tradition.

I'm really surprised by the lack of knowledge these days or maybe it is more the GAP between sections in the scene, it used to be so much closer back in the nineties even. Now the seperation appears greater than ever.

Jazzcat, please adapt your views to yourself and look how ridiculous your articles are about the demoscene. Do you have a clear understanding of effect coding, music or graphics ? We will forgive your stupidity however.

2007-03-27 06:57

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5028

Quote: By now, Oswald has put more energy into whining about a minor release than it took us to introlink AND play it. So, I think we all know what Oswald thinks. Thanks for sharing, eventhough you're more than a decade too late.

Others have stated that they like it, and would never have laid eyes on the preview if we didn't spread it around. Thus, taste differs.

Most people who aren't interested would refrain from downloading and spending their energy on something that did not interest them. But not Oswald, he was born a cranky bitch.

Also I find it quite amusing that Oswald acts like Triad never release anything but small introlinked previews. Let me spell it out for you; This was hardly a major release for us. We release demos, graphics, music and bigger games on a steady basis. And an occasional small preview, that you can just ignore in case you don't like it. Take a look on what Triad released just during the last year, and compare it to what Resource put out. It doesn't take a genious to see what group is the most active.

If you were half as active coding as you are whining, you would be a hell of a lot more useful for the scene. However, I don't expect your activity to ever match the size of your mouth.

Whatever stupidity that comes out of Oswald's mouth next, for me this topic is closed. I will not invest as much energy as Oswald has in this discussion, as I simply don't agree with him - or think it's a matter big enough to waste time on. We do what we have done for ages, and we quite frankly don't give a fuck what someone who never was involved in the cracking scene at any time in history think about that.

Dear Taper, yes Triad is more active, so what? This is like telling me "yes but Triad has a bigger dick" stop being childish.

I have respect for most of the Triad demos and cracks, but I dont find ripping some1's work a nice move.

2007-03-27 07:18

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

Quote: Jazzcat, please adapt your views to yourself and look how ridiculous your articles are about the demoscene. Do you have a clear understanding of effect coding, music or graphics ? We will forgive your stupidity however.

Of course I don't and nor am I claiming to be. I'm willing to learn and expand existing views. I think I can't say the same for you in regards to this current topic.

2007-03-27 22:39

Nightlord

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131

First things first: I have great respect for crackers and the mere concept of reading other people's machine code, figuring out ways to train bug fix etc. And for any crack where there is bug fixing I see that as a great service.

I must admit Creamd voiced some of my feelings quite accurately. I do not feel the same emotional bond to ways of the cracking scene because I was not there and then. This does not mean I do not respect those ways. I really do. That is why I enjoy reading or learning about them.

But when someone brings up a question of whether it brings any value to introlink a preview game (I admit Oswalds way of stating this was really inefficient), we should be able to properly discuss it. And the automatic response from the crackers should not be "hey this has always been the case" or "you newbie lamer don't understand this so shut up". I mean my age or my ability to get my hands on c64 10 years later than most people is not my fault right? Please patiently explain these things and you will see some of us will understand. Just do not automatically dis people out of seniority.

In case of bugfixing a preview, could it be more efficient to contact the game developer and work together? I would think this would help the developer nail down the problems faster for the full version. If you bug fix a preview than the developer needs to show some cracker skills and go through your bug fixed version to propagate that fix to the final version. Of course if you work with the developer than he should properly credit you. But isn't this scenario likely to yield a better game.

Again I want to point out that I am merely trying to understand and possibly suggest something here. Regards