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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Blues
Are there any new Blues compositions or existing covers on the SID?
Or anything like the algorithmic composition in BallBlazer for the Atari 400/800 which is not in the C64 version? |
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DeMOSic
Registered: Aug 2021
Posts: 126 |
just search for blues songs in deepsid and youll find tons of compute sidplayer covers of blues tunes :p |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quote: just search for blues songs in deepsid and youll find tons of compute sidplayer covers of blues tunes :p
Yes some of the songs are categorized as the Blues, but sound more like R&B or Funkytown and have no rhythmic pauses; the SID is a fantastic but noisy chip that is constantly outputting in many compositions:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Bakewell_Dwayne..
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Bakewell_Dwayne..
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Blues_Muz/Somme..
This example has rhythmic pauses but still sounds like electronic music and not blues even with the digi:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Blues_Muz/Nordb..
This one has a nice relaxing Acid Jazz feel, but is not the Blues:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Blues_Muz/Roest..
This is closer:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/W/Wisdom/Dream_Lo..
These compositions are all incredible but perhaps Blues genre characteristics are particularly hard for the subtractive analogue synth? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5027 |
I love Dwayne \o/ |
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DeMOSic
Registered: Aug 2021
Posts: 126 |
Quote: Yes some of the songs are categorized as the Blues, but sound more like R&B or Funkytown and have no rhythmic pauses; the SID is a fantastic but noisy chip that is constantly outputting in many compositions:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Bakewell_Dwayne..
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Bakewell_Dwayne..
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Blues_Muz/Somme..
This example has rhythmic pauses but still sounds like electronic music and not blues even with the digi:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Blues_Muz/Nordb..
This one has a nice relaxing Acid Jazz feel, but is not the Blues:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Blues_Muz/Roest..
This is closer:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/W/Wisdom/Dream_Lo..
These compositions are all incredible but perhaps Blues genre characteristics are particularly hard for the subtractive analogue synth?
i mean like take blues song names, eg Johnny B Goode, then search taht on deepsid, and youll usually find a few covers |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quote: i mean like take blues song names, eg Johnny B Goode, then search taht on deepsid, and youll usually find a few covers
Oh that's a more modern rock and roll adaptation. I'm looking for reproductions of authentic blues composition, either originals or covers, here are three genre examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f-YL02pumY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RoL-U6c3bc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ_7nYEpkBo
I'm wondering if the Fx are even possible with the SID or if the chip in the Atari is better suited to the genre. |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 422 |
Such classic https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/D/DRAX/Worktunes/.. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
> perhaps Blues genre characteristics are particularly hard
> for the subtractive analogue synth?
no, but blues as a genre relies heavily on expression and not composition, therefore doesn't make much sense stiffly programmed. if there are exceptions - they utilize blues characteristics (rhythm, licks), but emphasize songwriting aspect. you're warmly welcome to come up with a proper algo which generates blues, that could be an interesting challenge. |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quoting DiggerSuch classic https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/D/DRAX/Worktunes/..
Not blues but a most excellent composer, made me think of Taki when I saw Drax, another awesome composer:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/T/Taki/Draxish.sid
Quoting Hate Bush> perhaps Blues genre characteristics are particularly hard
> for the subtractive analogue synth?
no, but blues as a genre relies heavily on expression and not composition, therefore doesn't make much sense stiffly programmed. if there are exceptions - they utilize blues characteristics (rhythm, licks), but emphasize songwriting aspect. you're warmly welcome to come up with a proper algo which generates blues, that could be an interesting challenge.
Great insight I agree. I am working on an algorithm with an aspect to allow the listener to participate in the composition.
I was hoping to find algorithmic examples for the SID like the BallBlazer algorithm for Atari. Makes me wonder if there was a difficulty issue where that could not be implemented as easily on the C64 or just got left out of the port. |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
I have an algorithm that does soft Jazz and Charles Ives inspired modernist composition released in Breakout Pet Factory demo from Transmission 64 this past weekend.
Working on a most difficult Blues algorithm... |
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AüMTRöN
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 42 |
/MUSICIANS/T/Tonal_Teapot/Ubiks_Musik.sid song 4 is still the most bluesy thing I heard on C64. It's not exactly blues, but it does have a few I/IV/V in it, and the lead is somewhat improvised sounding. It eventually ends up in a out-of-sync cacophony, but it still rules hard.
Quote:blues as a genre relies heavily on expression and not composition, therefore doesn't make much sense stiffly programmed
This. I've tried to write blues on sid and it quickly feels pointless. |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quote: /MUSICIANS/T/Tonal_Teapot/Ubiks_Musik.sid song 4 is still the most bluesy thing I heard on C64. It's not exactly blues, but it does have a few I/IV/V in it, and the lead is somewhat improvised sounding. It eventually ends up in a out-of-sync cacophony, but it still rules hard.
Quote:blues as a genre relies heavily on expression and not composition, therefore doesn't make much sense stiffly programmed
This. I've tried to write blues on sid and it quickly feels pointless.
This has a nice sound.
This Jazz piece by Glenn Gallefoss is inspiring too:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Blues_Muz/Galle..
This one is nice too:
https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/B/Bayliss_Richard..
Agree Blues is very challenging on the SID, I working on the Blues algorithm on the Atari too. Blues might be a genre the less advanced Atari sound chip is better at, jury is still out... |
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ws
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 229 |
so, i'm just asking because i am really unsure, but this is some kind of blues right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QcdOsM9Io (Mikie Title)
Totally love that tune.
Like Boogie-Woogie Blues or something? |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quote: so, i'm just asking because i am really unsure, but this is some kind of blues right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QcdOsM9Io (Mikie Title)
Totally love that tune.
Like Boogie-Woogie Blues or something?
Yes this has a blues feel, closest I have seen so far on the SID. Very cool! |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quote: > perhaps Blues genre characteristics are particularly hard
> for the subtractive analogue synth?
no, but blues as a genre relies heavily on expression and not composition, therefore doesn't make much sense stiffly programmed. if there are exceptions - they utilize blues characteristics (rhythm, licks), but emphasize songwriting aspect. you're warmly welcome to come up with a proper algo which generates blues, that could be an interesting challenge.
Here's my algorithm for the Blues from the Silly Venture Art Festival in Gdansk this weekend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iahkNyHnnKk
Interestingly the algorithm that allows this program to run on the Commodore 64 has an unexpected side effect of changing the Blues Sound to Jazz. I will be releasing it at a C64 demo party soon.
Here's my recent entry from Transmission64 with Jazz and modernist music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJNeu97_YW0 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11146 |
Not every Kakophonie qualifies as Jazz though |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quote: Not every Kakophonie qualifies as Jazz though
Some people feel some modernist music is a cacophony because we are not used to hearing quarter tones. I tried to keep the modernist measures melodic.
What did you think of the pure Jazz measures in the piece?
If you like them you will like my next release which is all Jazz like that with no modernism. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11146 |
There is nothing "Jazz" in there really. Just semi random blobs of noise. |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Here's a video of my Jazz Improv algorithms for the BASIC10Liner contest in March, and the link to the CSDB download:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yIfEdMXUWQ
GateCrasher Jazz Improv 2024 BASIC 10 Liner Contest
There are two different algorithms that change up after making it through the gauntlet.
Hope some CSDB musicians will try out the new BASIC this program is written in. It has a programmable score and Music commands for a built in Tracker Sequencer. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
grandma always told me to be positive, so i will not comment on musical merit and say instead that from programming standpoint it _may_be_ excellent. |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quoting Hate Bushgrandma always told me to be positive, so i will not comment on musical merit and say instead that from programming standpoint it _may_be_ excellent.
Thanks! Your comment got me thinking the algorithm might be improved if it had a musical arrangement to work with instead of building SID's from scratch.
I have written an algorithm that creates new songs from one SID in a Pong music demo for the BCC#18 party in Berlin.
The video shows new SID's being created on each level. It only played for a minute at the party so didn't get to show any of the new songs being created:
https://youtu.be/Pm-X08PUOkI
Pong music demo will be uploaded to CSDB shortly. Push up to play in user mode or watch the computer unlock the SID's. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11146 |
How long do i have to wait until it plays music? |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quote: How long do i have to wait until it plays music?
It took an hour to collect the interesting songs in the video but one or two will play after a few minutes.
I'm back porting it to another demo and hooking up the button to allow immediately generating the next song if the current one is uninteresting. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
Mr SQL: i skipped through the last video linked here, then skipped through the discussion above. they don't exactly fit each other, wrong thread perhaps? :| |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 116 |
Quoting Hate BushMr SQL: i skipped through the last video linked here, then skipped through the discussion above. they don't exactly fit each other, wrong thread perhaps? :|
Maybe not.
Watch the video and forward to the middle where the Atari section starts.
Some of the Atari songs sound Blues influenced and some have an Island feel. See what you think, it's the same algorithm on the C64 version. Maybe the more primitive chip is better for the genre. |
