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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 292 |
Are you a Crossdev-er???
I post this message mostly because I have just finished coding a crossdev util (PC C64 Bitmap Editor), but just as much because I'm wondering how many other cross-development
fans there are out there. Below follows a list of "you might be an American lamer if" stuff....
If you love developing stuff for the C64, but love to do it on another machine, then stand and be counted, eh... If cadaver's your hero, speak up. If you've ever spent a weeks pay on a new PC to run VICE and goattracker, let's hear about it. If you spend more time in VICE than in Windows, or think that the last twenty years of development in the field of computer technology served the sole purpose of giving you a hard drive on which to organize your SID music, then shout out, eh...
I can't be the only one who sees the value of a PC as a slave terminal for a C64 setup, useful only in terms of how it services your C64 rig, so let's prove it!
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Quote: Well, we coded our last demo Arcanum entirely on CCS64... (and our next demo as well :) musics and gfx were ofcourse done on a real 64.. BTW, now I've got a question to ask :
Does anybody know of a good assembler/dev.kit on pc for the c64? this is what I need
- Turbo Ass compatible
- compiles NOT (well, not only) single files, but a snapshot of the 64-mem, INCLUDING REU CONTENTS
- allows me to link binaries to the ass. file, like
*=$000000 (REU) .file ="pinball table.prg"
or sth..
- should be compatible with VICE1.9 if possible (or with the latest windows version of CCS64)
this way I can code in one window, compile, switch to vice and with the press of a button load the snapshot file and everything will start immediately
offcourse, it would only have to change an existing snapshot I made earlier.. for example, If I make a snapshot of a freshly reset 64, the dev.kit would only have to change the memory-contents where I put my code/data...
ANY IDEAS? PLEASE HELP, I REALLY *NEEED* THIS FOR PINBALL DREAMS!
WVL
Sorry, I'm at least not aware of any snapshot compatible crossassembler.
You could "emulate" building snapshots with any assembler that supports including binary files (DASM for example, though that isn't TurboASM compatible.) Most assemblers don't support more than 64KB of memory, so it would have to be done in 64KB pieces, and then putting the pieces together for example with:
copy c64ram.bin+reubank1.bin+reubank2.bin snapshot.bin /B
Of course this way you'd have to learn the VICE snapshot file format yourself, and insert the necessary headers as needed.
But my real viewpoint is that the final game has to be able to load itself from disk anyway. So you could implement a Kernal routine-loader for the testversion, and turn True Drive emu off when loading. Combined with VICE's Warp mode the testversion would likely start under a second, if you have a fast PC. :) |
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Bud
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 14 |
I've been crossdeveloping on Linux for a while, using the following:
Editor: Cooledit (in X-Windows), which i had made a configfile for so that it showed the 6502 mnemonics in color.
Assembler: A6 (by Trireme/Entropy), which handles most Turbo Assembler stuff (.text, .byte, *=$2000 and so on)
Displayed the compiled program using prlink on the c64, or on Vice, where I loaded it directly from the harddrive (using a modified Action Replay cartridge image where the fastloader was disabled by default).
I also made some conversion tools in C on my Amiga, for converting pictures to hires (monomagic), ifli or sprites, and converting the binary into .byte textfiles so that i could include it in the source file.
I also made a picture displayer for DOS, which i still have to put on a website someday.... |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 898 |
Cadaver :
well, not really what I am looking for.. I really want to be able to change the REU contents on the fly, using the assembler.. ofcourse it will have to load by itself someday, but that's easy to make when I need it.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
i'd really advice you to have a look at ca65... you can create such "snapshot" type of output by creating a custom linkerscript here.... that'd probably not be exactly what you want though (ready for load into vice that is) although i guess you could tweak it to do just that.
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White Flame
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 136 |
Quote: Coding demos on CCS?
Blasphemy i say! ;)
100% pure C64 here, using the TurboAsm.
On my desk there's a 128D, under the desk there's a dos-oriented 486 with the sole purpose of being an HD for the 64.
Xdevelopment sux, emus suck even more
Raven/64Ever
Let's see, with cross-dev, I get:
- Greater than 40x25 visible edit space
- Multiple visible edit windows open at once
- More responsive system
- Save, compile, link, crunch, run in under 1 second
- Practically no chance of running out of drive space
- No 16-char filename limit
- Drop my symbol tables into VICE so I can debug with labels intact
- Write utilities in 32bit C++ with (practically) no memory restrictions :)
etc etc etc
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 333 |
Quote: Let's see, with cross-dev, I get:
- Greater than 40x25 visible edit space
- Multiple visible edit windows open at once
- More responsive system
- Save, compile, link, crunch, run in under 1 second
- Practically no chance of running out of drive space
- No 16-char filename limit
- Drop my symbol tables into VICE so I can debug with labels intact
- Write utilities in 32bit C++ with (practically) no memory restrictions :)
etc etc etc
Cross-devving is very nice for BIG Projects.
But for the actual Testing/Designing, a small Basic-Prg
running on a real C64 and controlling the Effect is more
responsive then "pure" xdev.
Another very good thing with crossdevelopment are
Makefiles. I never found a similar thing for the c64.
BTW, if you can crunch under 1 second, you are not using
exomizer :-)
Zed Yago
--
If everything is worth money
money is worth nothing |
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HackZ0id
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 6 |
I'm crossdev-ing almost all the time, using vice, 65cm, as65, SuSHi and .BAT make-scripts. The only things I do in TASM on a real C64 is prototypes or what would be called "proof of concept" in the corporate world.
You can easily maintain and build all parts of a demo this way, and a bugfix in a central library-function is compiled into all parts at the same time to.
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
There is nothing wrong with Cross developing demos/games.
Game programmers have been doing this for decades.
I agree that it was not such a good idea a few years back, but one important thing to consider is that C64 emulators are now extremely accurate and cycle exact featuring even 'tv emulation' for that authentic feel.
I suppose it is down to taste and what you are used to. but would you rather wait hours to crunch one c64 prog or convert data or do it all in less than a second?
I've released a CrossDevelopment GFX App known as BMP2MCI which basically converts a truecolor image to a 320x200x16 multicolor interlace image which can be saved out as raw c64 data.
Features high quality floyd steinberg dither as well as C64 interlaced emulation preview!
download it from.
www.thealgorithm.btinternet.co.uk/bmp2mciv1.zip
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Zeitgeist
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 22 |
Yeah, all nice ... but tell me: Am I completely stupid and missed it or where can we benefit from your bitmap editor then :-) ? I'd love to see a nice editing tool somewhen. |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Hmmm... Seems like most people don't read..
This program is a converter. Nothing more, nothing less. Have I ever mentioned that it is an editor??
BTW V2 is released with more dithering algorithms as well as the ability to save as a C64 executable.
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