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2024-10-07 19:19

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

What is PETSCII - A guide for compo orgas

Lately, We've seen several cases of releases that don't adhere to PETSCII standard being entered into compos. Examples are: 11th place at Revision 2024 Textmode Graphics compo called "U-MOD3L", 4th place at Deadline 2024 Textmode Graphics compo called "Depth Logo with Obligatory Skull & Blood" and 2nd place at Xenium 2024 ASCII/ANSI/PETSCII compo called "Fantastic 4 Cracking Group logo".

The first mentioned example uses a custom character set instead of standard PETSCII. The second and third mentioned examples use multiple background colors and a custom combination of both "upper" and "lower" PETSCII character sets which is not possible in standard PETSCII.

Several PETSCII editors/paint programs out there allow for this faux/"fantasy" modes by untying the newcomer authors from original hardware restrictions. Some of them churn out C64 executables that utilize either normal character mode but with custom character set defined and written along with the displayer, ECM mode again with custom character set being written in the prg file, or downright hires bitmap mode (which is way out of even most lenient definition of "textmode graphics"). This furtherly confuses both newcomer authors and compo orgas because it leaves them under false impression that the file is compliant with standard PETSCII.

The shortest possible definition of PETSCII would be: if a picture can be recreated by using BASIC to print it on the screen (thx Groepaz) then it's a PETSCII. Or, if you can recreate it with no commands whatsoever (other than 2 POKEs for border/paper colors), by physically using cursor keys and the rest of the C64 keyboard Raquel Meyers style then it's a PETSCII for sure. I know compo orgas can't go writing BASIC programs or playing around with a real C64. Therefore I've attached a precise PETSCII specification at the bottom of this text. The origin of this specification is Shine's PETSCII World Discord server and the author is wbochar (a PETSCII artist and coder/maintainer of Petmate). Now, I'm aware that orgas can't reprint all this text when organizing a compo, but if they read and understand it, I'm sure they can distill the gist of it into something shorter that fits their needs. As long as they themselves are aware of the precise definition. Additionally, if future orgas are not sure about a specific entry, they can always contact Shine's PETSCII World on Discord or X, as the place is inhabited by nice people ready to help.

=======================================================================

Single Frame 'standard' PETSCII in PRG format

1. Uses built in character rom, UPPER or LOWER case (no mixing or flipping between cases).
2. No relocating ROM's, soft/custom roms, or copied ROM's.
3. petscii/data in standard (for that machine) screen and color memory area (if there is a color area)
4. Frame size is the default character editor dimensions for that platform (c64: 40x25 chars)
5. static background and border color (if that machine has that)
6. loops showing the picture (ie "jmp *")
7. No sprites, music, splits. rasterbars or other code manipulating the system. If you have to clarify something else thats legal, then assume No.
8. Auto starts from basic

So basically the PRG (program) on c64 just loads the screen chars and colors, sets the background, border and "pauses/loops" showing the pic.
Most of the time, I mean 99% we are talking about a c64 showing the petscii.
But technically, there are few platforms out there with their own distinct PETSCII/Colors/Frame implementations.
examples:
c64: 40x25 chars, 16 colors, background and border color.
PetX032: 40x25 or 80x25 chars, Mono Color (green/White), black background and no border color. There are multiple Char roms available for various pet versions..
vic20: 22x23 chars, Color is Fluid.., border 8 colors, background can have 16. The char roms are closer to the Pet than the c64
c128, c16... all have different color, screen size and rom differences..
So when you enter a compo or post a 'PETSCII' online.. we are usually talking about c64 40x25 chars.
If the compo has specific rules like "C64 Micro PETSCII 16x16 Mono Color" then override the values in the list above with the compo values.
Which means I can put 16 x 16 anywhere on the 40x25 screen with one color and choose another color for the Background, Border.
Any messing with the underlying char ROM's makes this a highres image that resembles a PETSCII, but is not a PETSCII.
The whole fun of this, is to work within the confines of PETSCII.
It's great to make art however you want to do it.. but if you want to call it a PETSCII image.. then those are the rules/guidelines.
There are many other formats that are PETSCII.. Wide and Long that scroll, animations, gfx demos. They all use the default charset/colors for that platform.

... 67 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2024-10-07 21:02

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

Quote:

Well, technically hires bitmap is text mode, where there is 1000 characters, and all appear only once, and are ordered from 0 to 999, and you cannot reorder them.

I don’t think this technical curiosity is helpful for this conversation. At all. On the contrary, in fact.

2024-10-07 21:10

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

Quote:

whats the tldr of the first post?

There are PETSCII tools out there that ignore some (or all) native restrictions and churn out PETSCIIs that do not adhere to standard. Unknowingly, newbies use those tools and enter PETSCII compos. Orgas don’t know that these entries are invalid. The fact they were made by a “PETSCII tool” confuses them. That’s as short as it gets. It already happened 3 times on 3 big parties this year.

2024-10-07 21:11

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

Quote:

I don’t think this technical curiosity is helpful for this conversation. At all. On the contrary, in fact

sorry, you are right

2024-10-07 22:06

t0m3000

Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 3

I'll write here again what I already wrote on pouet.

"For me as a beginner, PETSCII is the (plain) character set from the ROM, only one background color and 40x25 on the C64."

2024-10-07 23:42

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094

Quote: Quote:
I don’t think this technical curiosity is helpful for this conversation. At all. On the contrary, in fact

sorry, you are right

so that means Groepaz == Jetboy, 2 csdb accounts ?

2024-10-08 00:07

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

isn't it obvious?

2024-10-08 07:35

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1101

Quote: Quote:
whats the tldr of the first post?

There are PETSCII tools out there that ignore some (or all) native restrictions and churn out PETSCIIs that do not adhere to standard. Unknowingly, newbies use those tools and enter PETSCII compos. Orgas don’t know that these entries are invalid. The fact they were made by a “PETSCII tool” confuses them. That’s as short as it gets. It already happened 3 times on 3 big parties this year.

thanks :)

there's a simple solution to this, make a screenshot with vice and run it through png2prg 1.8:

png2prg -m petscii screenshot.png

if it fails, it's not petscii :)

2024-10-08 08:14

Dr. TerrorZ

Registered: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

I consider PETSCII as a screen mode, the default C64 text environment. The rules in the first post then tell what's traditionally allowed/not allowed in "a PETSCII".

Hires is another screen mode. Multicolor is another screen mode. ECM is another screenmode. No matter if these are also somehow charmodes.

My biggest confusion comes from the multicolor textmode, because that can be achieved with a few POKEs and fulfills most requirements.

In the past I've tended to accept multicolor charmodes as some kind of fringe PETSCII, but I guess they also fail this "it's not the default screen mode" test.

2024-10-08 09:33

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

It’s similar with ECM PETSCII. It deserves a new category. And a definition. Imho, these pics should use the first 64 chars from the ROM charset. But this is another subject, as all of these should not be allowed in a PETSCII compo in the first place.

@Burglar
Well, this sounds like a pretty elegant solution. Orgas behold!

P.S. As for invalid entry at this years’ Deadline - this is by far the lamest orga performance. The entry preview PNG has faux CRT RGB splits and it seems that PRG wasn’t even delivered, the download on scene.org is a .pscii flie. They didn’t mind this. I tried to warn them to take counsel on the entry in realtime during the show through their Discord, got quickly dismissed with “orgas know what they are doing”.

2024-10-08 11:13

jmin

Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 10

Anybody called for a EU regulation yet?

All joking aside, but I do feel that you're mixing different topics here and thus might (unintentionally) cross the line to boring gatekeeping.

I've had my fair share of "That's not PETSCII!" comments/PMs - even for a pic not tagged as PETSCII :D - and sure, using PETSCII Editor's export function has lead to some confusion as the charset is always copied here, but why not try helping those three newbies out instead of slamming down a "pure PETSCII only"-hammer on everyone. PETSCII is fun, MC PETSCII is ugly but fun, ECM PETSCII is challenging, but fun. Haven't done a PETSCII+rastabars or a PETSCII+sprites yet, but I'm sure it's fun too and I do wish that there are compos for each of those.

Clearer compo rules: yes, but keep them under 12 pages, please.
Better QA for compo entries: yes, but what about all the drama we're gonna miss out on?
Better tagging: yes, but that's not gonna happen here on CSDb, right?

Lastly, thanks for bringing this discussion onto various platforms instead of keeping it in a limited/locked-up group only ;-)

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