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Eyeth
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 98 |
Emu-Fuxx0r
Hello, CSDb denizens-
I would like to bring up this subject, in a constructive fashion, however!
I recently found out that certain demo authors and groups are now using Krill's code to disable their demo offerings under c64 or 128 emulators.
I find this practive to be very shortsighted and in fact, I would vote very negatively on such behavior in CSDb or on any related votesheet.
Why go to all of this trouble in emulator detection and disabling technology. IMHO, the time *wasted* on such efforts are far better spent on NTSC fixing it so that we North American sceners can view your demo releases. (And on the real machines, I might add!) Or just add a NTSC-fixer to your demo crews and share full source code for a proper NTSC fix.
As of now, I am unable, still, to view certain demos due to no NTSC-fix and an emulator is out of the question as they are emufuxx0red! Talk about severely limiting your audience.
An c64 emulator is a brilliant piece of software engineering. The original c64 was truly inspired piece of software/hardware engineering. Are they not equal in deserving consideration and respect? The c64 audience uses both kinds, the emulation and the real thing and all of them share the common c64 computing experience.
Also, emulators are perfect for one thing; they can easily take screenshots of demo screens, even if there's interlacing effects and sprites multiplexed all over. I plan on writing newsletter articles covering the demo scene and try to bring more awareness to the North American scene regarding fine demo offerings and screenshots are invaluable.
I know that demo coders, graphicians, musicians, etc. all work together in creating inspired art on our Commodore 64's. Let's not restrict the audience any necessarily further by implementing emulator detection and shutdown. Allow any Commdore (real or emulated) user worldwide to share in the demo experience in 2002 and onwards. :)
Enjoy.
-Todd Elliott
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3054 |
Quote: Maybe it is a bad idea to make a production not work when being run on emulators (because of the thinx you guys have said).
But we can all agree that emulators sucks :), so some kind of emu-protection is cool. Instead of making the production crash, it would be cool if it displayed a nag-screen (like in some of the old shareware programs) when being run on an emulator, saying f.e. "emulators suck - this will look/sound lame on an emulator - run it on a real C64. (press space to start)" or something.
Just a suggestion...
Very good idea CyberBrain! |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Quote: Maybe it is a bad idea to make a production not work when being run on emulators (because of the thinx you guys have said).
But we can all agree that emulators sucks :), so some kind of emu-protection is cool. Instead of making the production crash, it would be cool if it displayed a nag-screen (like in some of the old shareware programs) when being run on an emulator, saying f.e. "emulators suck - this will look/sound lame on an emulator - run it on a real C64. (press space to start)" or something.
Just a suggestion...
I dont agree that emus suck.
a) I dont have to have two computers built up all the time.
2) faster disk changing etc., general quick handling,
3) easier to maintain collection
Of course the real thing is my fav, still using emus has the mentioned advantages.
Also Haakan and the VICE crew really put a lot of effort and enthusiasm in the emulation of the C64 and I appreciate that. Look at the Amiga emulators, they mostly suck.
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Warbaby
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 60 |
I totally agree with rOuGh. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
Emulators have their use, I personally don't like watching demo's on them but when it comes to magazines they absolutely rule.
Making a emu-fuxx0r would not be my favourite way of spending time, but if Krill gets a kick out of it, so be it. Ofcourse it's nonsense to 'demand' him spending his time on something else like ntsc-fixing instead. After all, it is HIS time and he can do with it as he pleases.
Hey, where have I heard that before?
*cough*(Timewaster/Focus)*cough*
PLEASE people, just because somebody does something you don't agree with, don't go telling him what he should do. After all, you 'waste' all your time here posting stuff while you could be fixing those damn demos yourself :)
And now I go back to my 6510-Fuxx0r, which will make sure the next Focus demo runs on an emulator, but not on the real thing.
/Marco |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
On C64S you can possibly gain a few cycles because it isn't emulating cycles on badlines correctly?? (not completely sure, but I remember doing musicroutine-tests a long time ago and they seemed to take less rastertime on C64S) Also, there were some bugs with the CPU flags & bit shift instructions. Because of this, sprites flew around the screen in weird fashion when I was testing MW3 on it for fun - then at some point the loaderpart refused to work altogether. :) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: On C64S you can possibly gain a few cycles because it isn't emulating cycles on badlines correctly?? (not completely sure, but I remember doing musicroutine-tests a long time ago and they seemed to take less rastertime on C64S) Also, there were some bugs with the CPU flags & bit shift instructions. Because of this, sprites flew around the screen in weird fashion when I was testing MW3 on it for fun - then at some point the loaderpart refused to work altogether. :)
i've noticed a few very interesting reactions when fucking with $d011 - i'd need to experiment with them a little more to see what they can do... =-) |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Ah, now I remembered another thing, that has to do with the C64S serial bus emulation. It seems to work like there were 2 sets of DATA & CLK, the other going from C64 to 1541 and other from 1541 to C64 (when a line is pulled low only the other device sees it low at input lines)
That could make for some interesting fastloader-protocols. :) |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
@TDJ: The point is not that Krill is using his time on coding Emufuxxors, the point is that is annyoing to see that stupid -no emu screen- when you run emufuxxed files. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
Rough, just wait until you see the -no c64 screen- when you run my next demo :)
To be honest: I've never encountered the emufuxxor screen, then again, I watch all demo's on the real thing. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: Rough, just wait until you see the -no c64 screen- when you run my next demo :)
To be honest: I've never encountered the emufuxxor screen, then again, I watch all demo's on the real thing.
Apparently, some real C64s show that message too...? =-)
The only time i've seen it was the Jeroen Kimmel colly, i considered de-fuxx0ring it but couldn't be arsed. |
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