| |
algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
New C64 Graphic /Audio Tricks
In the late 80's - mid 90's there was a huge flow of new inventions such as FLD, Sideborder removal, FLI etc etc.
What has happened now. Blocky Plasma's and 4x4 effects..
Maybe coders cannot find any more tricks from the machine?
The only person I am relying on now is Crossbow in Meet Crest (If it is ever released)
Does anyone know of any other graphic invention apart from the following
FLI
IFLI
X-FLI
UFLI
etc
etc |
|
... 33 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
|
| |
Spinball
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 88 |
and 4x4 is still a lot better then 8x8, wich was also used before graham came up with 4x4-fli. |
| |
HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 728 |
..and Graham was not the first one who *came up* with 4x4. He was the first one to do a demo with it, but it was invented earlier by Wrath Designs.
Also i can imagine that he was first to do 4x4 with the fast-timing that was normally used since then. So what *is* the 4x4-invention? the gfx-mode itself or the timing that made it practically useful? |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
I dont really understand all these disliking around the 4x4 mode. I think it was a necessary invention. Why should a c64 coder only think in vic tricks and rasters ? Tell me when was the last time a new REAL vic effect (trick) invented ? (and I dont talk about gfx modes) Why do you think its a bad thing that other platforms influenced our scene ? Imagine what kind of demos would you see on the c64 today without them. Still boring dycps, rastersplits, blah, blah, blah. The scene needed 4x4, so we could finally invent all those math effects known from other platforms, and what happened was a normal evolution IMHO. Sceners did effects wich seemed to be impossible until 4x4 come around. Now we make the same effects in hires, wich seemed to be impossible in the 4x4 era. Who the fuckin hell would dare to think in the eighties that we will have realtime texture mappers, phong shaders blah blah today ? NOONE! I think these things were over even the crazyest coders imagination! Now we have them, and without other platforms, without lowres modes we wont have them!
Btw, I have some unreleased effects, and I made them in 4x4. Why ? Because: its simply fuckin ultra impossible to do them in higher resolutions. So what should I do ? Stop coding since I can only make new things in 4x4 ? Or do you want to see 7 bouncing rastersplits + a cool fli pic with 500 sprites multiplexed over it ?
Should we stop inventing new stuff, since 4x4 sucks ?
We should have stopped by around 1990 then!!! |
| |
CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
I totally agree with Oswald. There were a time, though, where all c64 demos were raped by too many (bad) 4x4 effects - so maybe that's where all the hostility against 4x4 is cummin from.
4x4 *can* be really cool, especially dithered 4x4. |
| |
hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
wd did sometimes combine 4x4 with bitmap gfx in a nice way.
most others did usually have the effect and nothing else on the screen, or at best a logo on the side.
i dont know why people are still whining about 4x4 and 8x8. there used to be demos filled with it for some time, now we dont see much demos at all. what do you prefer? |
| |
LordNikon
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 42 |
Hehe i know that some people dont think like me... but a dithered 8x8 can look very good... Just take a look on speccy demos. They only use dithered 4x4 and 8x8 and? The Speccycoders make the best math effects on the whole 8bit scene! ... (if you want to watch such a demo take a look at "dogma" -> www.zxdemo.org )
I like dithered 4x4 and 8x8... coders on the c64 should do more effects with this 2 modes! |
| |
Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338 |
I agree with Hollowman, Cyberbrain and Oswald.. |
| |
QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
If mankind never left trees we even wouldn't have a C64 now... |
| |
algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Regarding the Spectrum, The heavy advantage of that machine is its 3Mhz processor compared to less than 1Mhz for the C64. This would in theory make it faster for decompression / JPEG conversion etc. Although the C64's hardware is much more superior lifting the load from the CPU.
I must agree that 4x4 and 8x8 effects can be nice, but seeing it all the time (similar to seeing Vectors on Amiga) was a bit boring.
I remember the major breakthrough's such as Pictures in Sideborder, FLI, stretching effects etc. Coders kept on coming up with impressive combinations of all the above and more
But as soon as the 8x8 and 4x4 effects started, it was all a case of setting up this mode and then plotting to it.
Of course programmers proved that they are capable of doing maths / 3d based demo's by giving a texture mapped blocky spinning duck shape thingy. etc But a demo has to look and sound good. Its fine for a coder to demonstrate a doom routine in 4x4, but what does that show of the C64's capabilities?
Luckily 4x4 is gone now. Want to see more demo's like Dutch breeze, Krestology, Deus Ex machina, Parts, etc
|
| |
Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338 |
Dutch Breeze? I'd rather have some new 4x4 effects thank you.
And really, if you think 4x4 or 8x8 effects are so boring...were the old demos with the same old FLI/DYPP/DYCP/whatever routines over and over again really any better?
With some good design and innovative ideas, a demo with 4x4 or 8x8 effects can be just as cool as Elysion or Insomnia or Deus Ex Machina or whatever you consider to be a "good" demo this week. It shouldn't just be about the effects.
The main thing is, I'd personally rather see 10 new "blocky" demos in the next few months than no demos at all. Now stop complaining and start producing. |
| Previous - 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 - Next |
