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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1089 |
blue wins, moderators must improve, baracuda out
I understand that the fresh moderation team needs to find its way around how to properly moderate here, so mistakes are made and that's fine.
However, I'm getting a bit tired of the trigger happy thread-closers, especially when the first bans *must* be discussed properly to find out if the correct course of action was taken or not and if the majority agrees with the action taken.
It's starting to look like moderator X gets tired of explaining things, so he closes a thread where a certain ban *should* be explained. Nothing in the now closed thread was out of line and an honest request for more info, and after *finally* giving full info you close it immediately. I think that's completely wrong.
If you guys keep this up, more ppl will leave. |
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SECRET MAN
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 336 |
Seriously, if you were non c64 related.. how would you think of a 30+ year old spending his precious spare-time collecting and restoring 20 year old pieces of software? These people must be nuts! ;) and guess what.. they mostly are strange and sometimes do not have the best social skills.
Thats exactly the words of my wife :-) Then we are all nuts,or ? |
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The Communist
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 485 |
Yeah but in the Baracuda case: It is tiring to discuss and discuss and explane and explane and the opposite (Baracuda) doesn't get or doesn't want to get the point. It is also tiring if some always compares peaches with apples. Baracuda is one of the most strangest guys I know and it seems to me that he has nothing else than the scene and so this ban may have hit him hard but most of us coudn't live with him no more. He had his chances but replied everytime with his know-it-all kind. It got too boring and he didn't saw the point coming to just stop the discussion and live with the way the csdb gets run. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
During the 5+ years of the existence of CSDb I have never ever experienced any direct, unfounded negative approach to newbies or new users on the portal. Bordeaux, please give us some examples, I'm very interested to see who else was attacked by the big sleazy mass of proud CSDb oldies. Maybe we're visiting two different CSDbs, but 99% of the people here were always very friendly with newbies who tried to cope up with the C64 scene ( == weren't trolling, messing up with the db, leaving truly idiotic comments just for the sake of it, etc, etc), wether they were producing something or just hanging around the site. I could name a huge bunch of "new faces" who would probably tell you the same so frankly, I'm totally missing what are you talking about...
Edit: as for Baracuda, even the most profane person could notice that he has some psychological issues to solve. No sane person acts like him unwittingly... |
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Nightlord
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 |
Bordeux: You seem to think Baracuda was banned becasue he had different oppinions than the majority of CSDB. I think he was banned because of the way he reflected his difference of oppinion by enldessly arguing seemingly without the intention of really reaching a consensus(or finding the truth) but with the intention of keeping the argument going (or maybe winning the argument). This very behaviour is called "trolling" everywhere. He additionally performed operations on the data that he was repeatedly told not to do. This kind of behavior maps to "arguing uncompromisingly and endlessly" in say a "real world" town hall etc. and is not tolarated there too
It is perfectly OK to have a different oppinion, but it is not OK turn that into a freaking roadblocker in every thread in a web forum
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
@The communist
Fair enough reaction, thanks, but still discussions are just opinions.
I could totally agree with account restriction and locking of files as a measure (although I still dont agree with who owns a file but thats something else) that was fair enough -> preservation is a good reason to lock files.
I however find it hard to swallow that someone is unable to discuss or complain, even if it would be the most stubborn bloke in the world, just because what he says goes against your reasoning.
I saw no heavy cursing or offending from his side.. yes, maybe slight retaliation maybe.. come on, he showed me some of his pms actually.. I would have hit evil mode after only a few of them, wouldnt you?
I guess this view of mine has more to do with general life opinions in matters of freedom of speech, lets face it.. that will always be a discussion as far as humans live :( So whats done is done, I just did not want this to go by unnoticed since I goes against many of my beliefs.
@jailbird
Ill gladly go through the entire forum if I need to, although I hope I do not have to for the time it will cost me, lets call it fair enough if I name a few which come to mind?
c64 video's
Is the first example I ran across whilst just searching (simply because its in the top of c64 productions). Now as an example please lets not discuss whether people are right or wrong in that post, its an example of how easy this place can seem to be unfriendly to newcomers;
Ill take two quotes from Smila the original poster;
..i think i have to reply to this. I MADE A MISTAKE . jesus.
it was my first post here and iam sorry for getting up your nose by posting in the wrong place
i know i posted in the wrong place. but maybe you should of directed me to the correct place to post. the new stuff you blokes do is great and i enjoy it all. to hoth and hollowman, i was trying to be nice!
Just look at that post and tell me honestly.. does this (even though it *might* be true) in any way look welcoming and appealing to newbies?
And Ill even make matter worse.. I seriously wonder who posted
Smila : don't forget that not all sceners are that unfriendly!!! Simply look for the friendly ones to communicate with
On which there was a reply from this newbie saying ..hooray to that!!.. finally feeling welcome?
Want to make a bet that I can name the person now marked as <none> who actually gave that user a friendly and welcome feeling which all of you neglected to deem as important?
To sum it up.. you might not need to agree with me, but please give me some credit that I am not imagining things here or that what I have to say is completely false. I just wanted some of you to think about actions and consequences to prevent things in the future, thats all.
@nightlord
As also mentioned to the communist thanks for your post.
File locking I can live with but yes, I do believe everyone has the right to voice their opinion just as it is your right to ignore it. The ignore all posts from this user button exists for this sole reason!!!
I find it an offence that several of you (might I ad, even some of the people I hold in high respect) here we not flamed for verbal abuse (posts simply removed) publicly. Had you seen some of those you might have understood some of his (re)actions a bit more. As said before I saw it too late and could have solved it.. my bad my conscience problem, not yours.
As for me, you wont find me trolling every thread, it is not my style, but I can understand people going to limits to stand up for what they believe in and I do not think that words or even a 1000 complaining or arguing post without profanity have ever harmed any of you here on this forum. Several pieces of text he showed me would potentially even hurt me to be honest.
cheers
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Danzig
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 440 |
tim, to me it just sounds like a 30+ dude posting who never got layed at all :P
fairly too much people seem to "upload" their rl-frustration to this site...
those who havent been l33t 20 years ago still cant cope with the fact that they are still not l33t 20 years later.
of course i myself took some negative actions on retards as they are just acting like nerd but you are right when you demand kind reactions to newbies...
to take the old "foreigner"-phrase to "this universe":
we are all newbies, in some genre...
f.e. the ever soooo hated pc-scene acts friendly to a guy calling himself "crest". he looks like a nerd but he is just a fan collection demos, doing some demoshow at breakpoint and people might think funny about him, but he always shows up as he feels fine on the parties. and we, that have the arrogance to call us some kind of "root-scene", cant even welcome someone who did videos influenced by the c64... someone who just wanted to share his/her love to this great piece of computer with us... thanx c64-scene for being just some piece of a rotten society...
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Whilst wondering how high is the self-esteem of someone who gets scared away by some humorous/sarcastic comments on a thread where the reason of the derisive reaction was quite appropriately explained afterwards, I see only one person in that topic who's viciously stirring the shit and trying to act as a really dramatic squire.
But yes, I get your point. Still, a lot of new faces showed up and stood on the scene in despite of all this what you're trying to stress out, so hopefully we aren't such an aggressive bunch of negative freaks after all, right? :) |
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Nightlord
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 |
Bordeux: I am not an admin here but my perspective is about the quality of content in csdb forums (which I find degraded in the last 3 years due to passive moderation). I see your point but I would like to point out two things:
1- "ignore posts from this user" button is pretty much useless in my oppinion. Because everyone ignores different users, and everyone sees a different thread. when a group of people trying to discuss something on a forum thread does not see the exact same set of text the integrity of the discussion gets jeopardized. If you ignore someone you still see the reactions others give to him etc. You give reactions and others do not know that you are missing some of the text they see. Thus these would degrade the quality of a discusion. I think it might even be argued that the ability to ignore a user should be removed but whatever.
2- 1000 messages without profanity (and without intellectual value as well) does not hurt anyone directly but does damage the quality of the forum. It degrades the "signal-to noise" ratio. It causes (and has caused in the past) some quality content creators to leave the forums and possibly keeps away potentially very prolific passers by. Even though it can not be proved, I think there is a correlation between how much activity there is in the scene and how well the communication channels of the scene are working. The diskmags and csdb are the main communication channels right now (and parties too, but they suffer from physical/economical/social constraints) and if these get clogged this I think does damage the scene in general.
2.5 Personally I think "profanity" is just a way some people use to make strong and well fitting statements. Therefore I do not care much about profanity but I do respect if others do. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3052 |
Bordeaux: Let's repeat what I said to you and others who asked. We gave him chance after his first and biggest faux-pas when he was taking The Stock and it's releases as hostage. What was happening later is very well explained in short post (#20) by Nightlord. I reccomend to read it to everyone who doesn't understand what was happening.
We could maybe live with him pasting large chunks of the text from the poorly writen CSDB rules into the comments. We could maybe live with some of his more or less undecipherable but frequent remarks. We could maybe keep removing of rude reactions on his address that he provoked by trolling in the oneliners and forums. However, he copy pasted the text from "scenery" into the selected group's comments. That was the last drop. It was really uncalled for. Especially in the cases of groups that have active memebers maintining their entries here in the database. What I find even more stupid is that he again defended that as a right thing to do. It isn't right thing to do. First of all he didn't give credit to the dude who created scenery. Secondly, this database has completely different system of adding data to the entries. Not pasting the whole chunks of info into the comments.
Anway. It's a bit tiresome of explaining this all over again. It's maybe short time since moderator group is here, but we aren't some unexperienced irresponsible kids playing with heavy weapons. We consider our moves. We discuss things. And hesitate even. But there was over 130 posts in the moderator forum concerning Baracuda. Not to speak about private messages from mods. Baracuda was voted out by the majority of mods here. We had really good reasons for that even before this last incident. It had to be done, and we aren't happy about it.
I'm sure not.
roman
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Let me state that I'm all in line with what nightlord said. If the signal-to-noise ratio decreases to painful levels a lot of people (especially those with cramped real life schedules and few spare time) might decide to just shrug their shoulders and turn away, deciding to spend their precious spare time elsewhere. We shouldn't let trolls scare away the productive folks for the sake of democracy and friendliness.
I saw that happen over at comp.sys.cbm which was a damn interesting group to read about 5 years ago. Until some complete dumbnuts like Panks, Montchalin ruined it all due to non-moderation. A lot of people including me just took their hat as that group downright became a time waster to read and interesting posts were drowned in an ocean of mindfuck topics... Well, just my 2 bytes. |
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