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Darkus
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 8 |
Coding for beginners
I`ve been searching the net for assembler guides and applications but I hoping someone can recommend the best guides and programs I should use for starting out - plus are there any issues with using emulators only ? Anyone who may answer these questions, please bare in mind I know very little about the C64 platform at this stage :) |
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A3
Registered: Dec 2005
Posts: 362 |
This topic has been up before some of the earlier ones are:
Learning machine code language
machine code / assembler
Code, how to get started? |
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6R6
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 245 |
http://codebase64.org/doku.php
Is useful as it has source-codes.
But you will want to get aay64.txt ( http://www.the-dreams.de/aay.html ) and perhaps the Commodore 64
Programmer's Reference Guide ( its on this page somewhere http://project64.c64.org/index.htm )
If you decide to code on PC - then use
64tass v1.45 ( 64TASS V1.45 ) - If you want to use a more advanced compiler, then try http://www.cc65.org/
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The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Darkus,
I have used mostly Turbo Assembler which is great. If you are starting out though it is best to choose your favorite cartridge; Action Replay, Super Snapshot, etc and practice with a plain ML monitor. This method is the hardest and will give you a more thorough understanding of your 64. There are new assemblers released too which are said to be good like the kick assembler.
TS |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 902 |
About recommending assemblers : I always use 64tass, simply because it is (IMO) the simplest that is available.
About coding on emulators : There are some 'quirks' that emulators sometimes do not emulate correctly, however : you will be hard pressed to notice any if you're starting with coding.
I recommend the latest VICE to test your codes, and the latest HoXS for inbetween tests. Hoxs is definately the better emulator, but is a lot less 'usable' (at least to me).
Hoxs is much slower (the price you pay for better emulation) but it will emulate almost anything you throw at it. A big disadvantage of Hoxs (IMO) is the missing cartridge emulation, which simply makes it a lot harder to debug things and I also miss the fastloader.. (I have my own version of Jiffydos as the roms in Hoxs to make up for it a bit..). In the end : use hoxs to test milestones in your code, but not for every test.
Also, I'd recommend to write your first program directly in the Monitor of a cartridge like Action Replay, you will be much closer to the machine and it's simply nice ;)
When you manage to get your first programs to run and work, you can switch to assemblers. (the reason to write directly in monitor is that you are very close to the memory, and you kind-of distance yourself from what-byte-is-where when using assemblers (at least for the code itself))
Good luck! |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quoting WVLA big disadvantage of Hoxs (IMO) is the missing cartridge emulation, which simply makes it a lot harder to debug things and I also miss the fastloader..
Don't forget the excellent built-in monitor VICE provides, as well. Makes development a breeze. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
I agree with WVL on using a monitor first.
But it really wont matter if you use vice or hoxs or whatever emu (if any).
The only things not emulated well is behavior that is non-intuitive anyway.
A rule of thumb: dont assume pre-settings of emulators to be valid on real thing (like memory beeing preset as 00 or FF etc).
That's all.
I use acme. Its plain, direct and mostly TASS compatible.
Also available for many platforms.
Dont even try to code in vice-Monitor. It may be nice (as in better than nothing) to debug but not to code in.
Forgive the command-style tone of mine, all this is just my idea/exp of it.
Code on,
enthusi |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Radiantx wrote:
Quote:the excellent built-in monitor VICE provides I know where the normal VICE monitor is... but where's the 'excellent' one? ;-) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 902 |
vice monitor is ok for debugging, but for coding? nah.. Maybe TMR would like it :) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Radiantx wrote:
Quote:the excellent built-in monitor VICE provides I know where the normal VICE monitor is... but where's the 'excellent' one? ;-)
Let me guess: you probably don't use the professional Vice version?
Anywhoo, I guess starting in monitor is the right way to go, I myself did all my parts pre-Focus in it. |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Quote: Let me guess: you probably don't use the professional Vice version?
Anywhoo, I guess starting in monitor is the right way to go, I myself did all my parts pre-Focus in it.
surely a monitor is a good way to start, but Vicemon is a bit masochistic imho.
FCIII monitor ftw.
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