[CSDb] - User Forums - What is PETSCII - A guide for compo orgas

You are not logged in - nap

CSDb User Forums

Forums > CSDb Discussions > What is PETSCII - A guide for compo orgas

2024-10-07 19:19

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

What is PETSCII - A guide for compo orgas

Lately, We've seen several cases of releases that don't adhere to PETSCII standard being entered into compos. Examples are: 11th place at Revision 2024 Textmode Graphics compo called "U-MOD3L", 4th place at Deadline 2024 Textmode Graphics compo called "Depth Logo with Obligatory Skull & Blood" and 2nd place at Xenium 2024 ASCII/ANSI/PETSCII compo called "Fantastic 4 Cracking Group logo".

The first mentioned example uses a custom character set instead of standard PETSCII. The second and third mentioned examples use multiple background colors and a custom combination of both "upper" and "lower" PETSCII character sets which is not possible in standard PETSCII.

Several PETSCII editors/paint programs out there allow for this faux/"fantasy" modes by untying the newcomer authors from original hardware restrictions. Some of them churn out C64 executables that utilize either normal character mode but with custom character set defined and written along with the displayer, ECM mode again with custom character set being written in the prg file, or downright hires bitmap mode (which is way out of even most lenient definition of "textmode graphics"). This furtherly confuses both newcomer authors and compo orgas because it leaves them under false impression that the file is compliant with standard PETSCII.

The shortest possible definition of PETSCII would be: if a picture can be recreated by using BASIC to print it on the screen (thx Groepaz) then it's a PETSCII. Or, if you can recreate it with no commands whatsoever (other than 2 POKEs for border/paper colors), by physically using cursor keys and the rest of the C64 keyboard Raquel Meyers style then it's a PETSCII for sure. I know compo orgas can't go writing BASIC programs or playing around with a real C64. Therefore I've attached a precise PETSCII specification at the bottom of this text. The origin of this specification is Shine's PETSCII World Discord server and the author is wbochar (a PETSCII artist and coder/maintainer of Petmate). Now, I'm aware that orgas can't reprint all this text when organizing a compo, but if they read and understand it, I'm sure they can distill the gist of it into something shorter that fits their needs. As long as they themselves are aware of the precise definition. Additionally, if future orgas are not sure about a specific entry, they can always contact Shine's PETSCII World on Discord or X, as the place is inhabited by nice people ready to help.

=======================================================================

Single Frame 'standard' PETSCII in PRG format

1. Uses built in character rom, UPPER or LOWER case (no mixing or flipping between cases).
2. No relocating ROM's, soft/custom roms, or copied ROM's.
3. petscii/data in standard (for that machine) screen and color memory area (if there is a color area)
4. Frame size is the default character editor dimensions for that platform (c64: 40x25 chars)
5. static background and border color (if that machine has that)
6. loops showing the picture (ie "jmp *")
7. No sprites, music, splits. rasterbars or other code manipulating the system. If you have to clarify something else thats legal, then assume No.
8. Auto starts from basic

So basically the PRG (program) on c64 just loads the screen chars and colors, sets the background, border and "pauses/loops" showing the pic.
Most of the time, I mean 99% we are talking about a c64 showing the petscii.
But technically, there are few platforms out there with their own distinct PETSCII/Colors/Frame implementations.
examples:
c64: 40x25 chars, 16 colors, background and border color.
PetX032: 40x25 or 80x25 chars, Mono Color (green/White), black background and no border color. There are multiple Char roms available for various pet versions..
vic20: 22x23 chars, Color is Fluid.., border 8 colors, background can have 16. The char roms are closer to the Pet than the c64
c128, c16... all have different color, screen size and rom differences..
So when you enter a compo or post a 'PETSCII' online.. we are usually talking about c64 40x25 chars.
If the compo has specific rules like "C64 Micro PETSCII 16x16 Mono Color" then override the values in the list above with the compo values.
Which means I can put 16 x 16 anywhere on the 40x25 screen with one color and choose another color for the Background, Border.
Any messing with the underlying char ROM's makes this a highres image that resembles a PETSCII, but is not a PETSCII.
The whole fun of this, is to work within the confines of PETSCII.
It's great to make art however you want to do it.. but if you want to call it a PETSCII image.. then those are the rules/guidelines.
There are many other formats that are PETSCII.. Wide and Long that scroll, animations, gfx demos. They all use the default charset/colors for that platform.

2024-10-07 19:23

TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244

Is it Groundhog Day already?
Quoting 'Myself quoting ChatGPZ'

Quoting 'ChatGPZ'
If you can print it, it's PETSCII

see: Plain PETSCII Graphics Competition 2013
worked quite well for a decade as a definition

As for Deadline 2024, well, to me it was clear beforehand that competing with a C64 PETSCII single screen in that "Mixed Text Graphics" with PC-ANSII and whatnot scrolling forever was Harakiri, but for fun I competed, anyway. Appreciated that FlashParty tried to split sub categories as soon as it made sense, however. The good old "If there's 3 entries of something, it's an own category" rule is a good one imho.

2024-10-07 19:42

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

3 invalid PETSCII entries in 3 big demoparties this year tell me that something isn’t working. Be it the definition, or orgas knowledge of the definition.
Pouet (I posted this text over there too) was and is the main channel for this, as there is bound to be orgas over there that are (obviously) not familiar with PETSCII specification. Of course, here at CSDb, most everyone is familiar with the specs. Here I was hoping for some thinking aloud from you all about what can be done to better educate orgas at big events.

2024-10-07 19:55

Guinea_pig

Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 1

I think visually, so I think pictures, or even a combined picture, demonstrating what makes an image a legal or illegal PETSCII would be in order. I might try my hand at it if I get a minute...

2024-10-07 20:16

TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2244

In practice, it's of course a matter of
a) how much experience orga has (to improve that is 4gentE's point)
b) how obvious rule violations are to identify
c) luck/time

In the Plain PETSCII competitions I rip every single entry for the voting disk, so any fishy stuff like changing Charset, raster-hanky-panky, sprites is eliminated, anyway.

However, when I'm BCC orga and get some floppy disk on my table half an hour ~~after~~ before the deadline, that's a different story, I'm probably also not infallible. If something is obviously using sprites or more than one $D021 color, disqualifying or moving to other category is an option. If ROM is copied to RAM to manipulate a fistful of chars, it's not always easy to spot at first glance.

Would be easier if people just played fair or at least realized using other fonts than ROM can't be PETSCII per definition.

2024-10-07 20:19

Shine

Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 369

Would it be suited, to have a tool like "ValidPETSCII", which checks if it's 100% (native) PETSCII?

2024-10-07 20:20

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

We even had people uploading "non PETSCII" as "PETSCII" entries here on csdb - the big problem here is how some "PETSCII" editors let you produce such images (combine upper/lowercase, or use foreign charsets) and then save it as executables. Which i can imagine is hard to grasp for newbies.

2024-10-07 20:24

Jetboy

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 337

Quoting 4gentE

or downright hires bitmap mode (which is way out of even most lenient definition of "textmode graphics").

Well, technically hires bitmap is text mode, where there is 1000 characters, and all appear only once, and are ordered from 0 to 999, and you cannot reorder them.

2024-10-07 20:33

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

that is in fact more true than one - hires mode is textmode with hardwired vram :)

2024-10-07 20:49

spider-j

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498

Quoting Jetboy

Well, technically hires bitmap is text mode, where there is 1000 characters, and all appear only once, and are ordered from 0 to 999, and you cannot reorder them.

I'm not sure what you mean by "technically". In my book the word "textmode"* implies that chars can be typed in from a keyboard.

*I'm only refering to Deadline compo – because it was called "textmode". Don't know about the other incidents.

2024-10-07 20:58

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1101

whats the tldr of the first post?

... 67 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

Previous - 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 - Next

Refresh

Subscribe to this thread: