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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2242 |
What's an import?
As one of your favourite mods Count Zero keeps cracking his head about the CSDb crack sub category "Import", let's help him, so he finally can focus on more productive issues.
Here's some rotten forum freds frome around a decade ago on how it emerged:
- Adding the cracker group to import/trainer version (Rough raising the question how to distinguish group-b-introlinked cracks originally made by group-a from group-a's release)
- Suggestion: New release type "C64 Import" (bepp calling for a new release type)
- PAL to PAL imports (Didi's view, especially doubting Imports without Video Standard fixes make sense)
So do we need the "Import" flag at all?
Should we limit it to the days when BBSes and snailmail were the only way of getting cracks across borders and oceans?
Is a crack made in one Western German city intro-linked in another Western German city an import?
Do we need another category/flag ("Lame Intro Linked Version without any advantages over original crack") instead?
Do more categories/flags really make things clearer or rather create more confusion?
Now go, fight. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
make it "or other means of swapping over a longer distance" then :) |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1932 |
So "Import" includes distance? Some minimum? And is the true origin important then as well?
We e.g. uploaded to the US-BBSes from Europe so things which got imported (aaaaand fixed) _in Canada_ got closer to the destined fixer/importer/downloader. Makes it importing from where? :)
Sooo much nitpicking, quality/exception/definition/understanding POVs - brave Ryk anyhow told me that he will come up with a handy definition when this discussion is over. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2242 |
Not sure about groepaz' focus on geography, although we find cases in which villages B and C were hardly 50 miles away from each other.
Quote:
in all of these cases however, the release should be "released by" group B and not group A and B, because group A was not involved whatsoever. for the same reason any credits related to group A release should not be repeated in the group B release. Except for the rare cases when group A was actually in coop with group B - again this would usually be stated in the intro or related notes. If in doubt, this is not the case.
Interesting point, especially as we currently deal with these releases totally the other way round by mentioning all groups involved, though we do not repeat credits.
Let me strike once more, having read Black Beard's memories, this ain't about fame or lame or ethics. It's about functionality of database. What helps me browsing my "Search Results"? There might be users searching for exactly THAT release of Maniac Mansion with exactly THESE 3 intros. Not mentioning group A at all won't help - in contrast to the current modus operandi, i.e. naming all groups involved. The flag "IMPORT", however, shows clear enough imho, group A had nothing to do with the actual _release_ (besides their release being linked). |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Quoting Groepazthe release should be "released by" group B and not group A and B, because group A was not involved whatsoever. for the same reason any credits related to group A release should not be repeated in the group B release.
Yet people whose SIDs were used in any random production/demo do get credit, because their work is present there, even though there were not involved. Which makes TheRyk's argument even more valid:
Quoting TheRykWhat helps me browsing my "Search Results"? There might be users searching for exactly THAT release of Maniac Mansion with exactly THESE 3 intros. Not mentioning group A at all won't help
It'd be best to either apply the same labeling standards to all productions or to none. |
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Higgie
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 127 |
@F7sus4: good point! The same goes for charsets, sprites and other items either ripped from games or other demos. Maybe it's possible to distinguish credits between somebody's been part of the "team" or not in the credits section. (going off topic again - sorry!) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
Quote:Yet people whose SIDs were used in any random production/demo do get credit, because their work is present there, even though there were not involved.
yes, that is equally retarded. it makes the db completely useless for eg finding out which productions rob hubbard actually contributed to. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
Quote:Let me strike once more, having read Black Beard's memories, this ain't about fame or lame or ethics. It's about functionality of database. What helps me browsing my "Search Results"? There might be users searching for exactly THAT release of Maniac Mansion with exactly THESE 3 intros.
This is the core problem some people have with making the db - random functionality is tacked on things that are ment for something else. "tags" in releasenames, extra info in comments, crazy release- and credit types that shouldnt exist. And all of this because noone gives a damn anymore and the proper fixes (new db fields) are never implemented. As someone already said, there should be different tables for "contributed to this" and "made something that is used" credits, for example. We know this since at least a decade too. So back to poopcorn mode because we are now at the point that tells us "nothing changes, we are stuck with shitty workarounds" yolo. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4731 |
Quote: Quote:Let me strike once more, having read Black Beard's memories, this ain't about fame or lame or ethics. It's about functionality of database. What helps me browsing my "Search Results"? There might be users searching for exactly THAT release of Maniac Mansion with exactly THESE 3 intros.
This is the core problem some people have with making the db - random functionality is tacked on things that are ment for something else. "tags" in releasenames, extra info in comments, crazy release- and credit types that shouldnt exist. And all of this because noone gives a damn anymore and the proper fixes (new db fields) are never implemented. As someone already said, there should be different tables for "contributed to this" and "made something that is used" credits, for example. We know this since at least a decade too. So back to poopcorn mode because we are now at the point that tells us "nothing changes, we are stuck with shitty workarounds" yolo.
So your conclusion is that we are dealing with a pseudo database? Or perhaps even a.. fake database? :O ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
more like Pseudomaintainance and Quantity over Quality mindset. |
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Comos
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 73 |
From an experience in my country, when most of the stuff was imported from the west side and the local groups slam their intro in front of the old one, is this considered a valid "Import" ? |
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