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Forums > CSDb Discussions > blue wins, moderators must improve, baracuda out

2007-06-30 19:20

Burglar

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1089

blue wins, moderators must improve, baracuda out

I understand that the fresh moderation team needs to find its way around how to properly moderate here, so mistakes are made and that's fine.

However, I'm getting a bit tired of the trigger happy thread-closers, especially when the first bans *must* be discussed properly to find out if the correct course of action was taken or not and if the majority agrees with the action taken.

It's starting to look like moderator X gets tired of explaining things, so he closes a thread where a certain ban *should* be explained. Nothing in the now closed thread was out of line and an honest request for more info, and after *finally* giving full info you close it immediately. I think that's completely wrong.

If you guys keep this up, more ppl will leave.

... 25 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2007-07-01 19:52

Danzig

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 440

tim, to me it just sounds like a 30+ dude posting who never got layed at all :P

fairly too much people seem to "upload" their rl-frustration to this site...

those who havent been l33t 20 years ago still cant cope with the fact that they are still not l33t 20 years later.

of course i myself took some negative actions on retards as they are just acting like nerd but you are right when you demand kind reactions to newbies...

to take the old "foreigner"-phrase to "this universe":
we are all newbies, in some genre...

f.e. the ever soooo hated pc-scene acts friendly to a guy calling himself "crest". he looks like a nerd but he is just a fan collection demos, doing some demoshow at breakpoint and people might think funny about him, but he always shows up as he feels fine on the parties. and we, that have the arrogance to call us some kind of "root-scene", cant even welcome someone who did videos influenced by the c64... someone who just wanted to share his/her love to this great piece of computer with us... thanx c64-scene for being just some piece of a rotten society...

2007-07-01 20:11

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

Whilst wondering how high is the self-esteem of someone who gets scared away by some humorous/sarcastic comments on a thread where the reason of the derisive reaction was quite appropriately explained afterwards, I see only one person in that topic who's viciously stirring the shit and trying to act as a really dramatic squire.
But yes, I get your point. Still, a lot of new faces showed up and stood on the scene in despite of all this what you're trying to stress out, so hopefully we aren't such an aggressive bunch of negative freaks after all, right? :)

2007-07-01 20:15

Nightlord
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131

Bordeux: I am not an admin here but my perspective is about the quality of content in csdb forums (which I find degraded in the last 3 years due to passive moderation). I see your point but I would like to point out two things:
1- "ignore posts from this user" button is pretty much useless in my oppinion. Because everyone ignores different users, and everyone sees a different thread. when a group of people trying to discuss something on a forum thread does not see the exact same set of text the integrity of the discussion gets jeopardized. If you ignore someone you still see the reactions others give to him etc. You give reactions and others do not know that you are missing some of the text they see. Thus these would degrade the quality of a discusion. I think it might even be argued that the ability to ignore a user should be removed but whatever.

2- 1000 messages without profanity (and without intellectual value as well) does not hurt anyone directly but does damage the quality of the forum. It degrades the "signal-to noise" ratio. It causes (and has caused in the past) some quality content creators to leave the forums and possibly keeps away potentially very prolific passers by. Even though it can not be proved, I think there is a correlation between how much activity there is in the scene and how well the communication channels of the scene are working. The diskmags and csdb are the main communication channels right now (and parties too, but they suffer from physical/economical/social constraints) and if these get clogged this I think does damage the scene in general.

2.5 Personally I think "profanity" is just a way some people use to make strong and well fitting statements. Therefore I do not care much about profanity but I do respect if others do.

2007-07-01 20:35

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053

Bordeaux: Let's repeat what I said to you and others who asked. We gave him chance after his first and biggest faux-pas when he was taking The Stock and it's releases as hostage. What was happening later is very well explained in short post (#20) by Nightlord. I reccomend to read it to everyone who doesn't understand what was happening.

We could maybe live with him pasting large chunks of the text from the poorly writen CSDB rules into the comments. We could maybe live with some of his more or less undecipherable but frequent remarks. We could maybe keep removing of rude reactions on his address that he provoked by trolling in the oneliners and forums. However, he copy pasted the text from "scenery" into the selected group's comments. That was the last drop. It was really uncalled for. Especially in the cases of groups that have active memebers maintining their entries here in the database. What I find even more stupid is that he again defended that as a right thing to do. It isn't right thing to do. First of all he didn't give credit to the dude who created scenery. Secondly, this database has completely different system of adding data to the entries. Not pasting the whole chunks of info into the comments.

Anway. It's a bit tiresome of explaining this all over again. It's maybe short time since moderator group is here, but we aren't some unexperienced irresponsible kids playing with heavy weapons. We consider our moves. We discuss things. And hesitate even. But there was over 130 posts in the moderator forum concerning Baracuda. Not to speak about private messages from mods. Baracuda was voted out by the majority of mods here. We had really good reasons for that even before this last incident. It had to be done, and we aren't happy about it.

I'm sure not.

roman

2007-07-01 21:14

Steppe

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510

Let me state that I'm all in line with what nightlord said. If the signal-to-noise ratio decreases to painful levels a lot of people (especially those with cramped real life schedules and few spare time) might decide to just shrug their shoulders and turn away, deciding to spend their precious spare time elsewhere. We shouldn't let trolls scare away the productive folks for the sake of democracy and friendliness.
I saw that happen over at comp.sys.cbm which was a damn interesting group to read about 5 years ago. Until some complete dumbnuts like Panks, Montchalin ruined it all due to non-moderation. A lot of people including me just took their hat as that group downright became a time waster to read and interesting posts were drowned in an ocean of mindfuck topics... Well, just my 2 bytes.

2007-07-01 22:16

Tim
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467

@Dazing
Hello old friend ;) very nice to see your post.
Damnit.. I actually agree with you on the l33t or maybe better said being a success factor remark.
And ps, it was supposed to be our little secret that I never got laid :D

@Jailbird
Thanks for getting my point, I really appreciate it! And hey, of course we arent all that bad and luckily a lot of people indeed did find their way here. Were both happy there I think ;)

@Nightlord
1. Hmm, ok.. I had not looked at the ignore issue from that point of view (probably because I have not ignored anyone so far except for hitting the button by mistake once or twice) so I gave it some half hour to sink in. I surprisingly have no fitting answer here, where as to me it is not a problem to ignore someones posts, I do understand yours a bit better now.. so, thanks!

2. Hmm, yes again a very good point. All though CSDb Discussions seems to fit debating, it is not uncommon for forums (as well as many bbs in the past) to move all topics that endup in quarrels and debates to a central point to lighten up tension on the other areas of the forum.

Open question to the mods:
Is such a rule in place yet and or are you guys able to move posts to another thread?
If not, I suggest it, as it would be a very good way of making everyone happy except people who intentionally mess up or troll if you will.

Also I would find it a very reasonable ruling to kick someone out of CSDB who has been requested various times to keep arguments in the discussion zone, maybe an improvement we can all agree on? It ensures a more or less separate area for free speech/opinion and removes most trolling from the other parts of the forum, gives the mods a fair reason to act as guardians and best of all, makes it a more fair system.

2.5 well personally and outside of this discussion we think quite alike, but maybe if needed thats better talked over in a PM.

@CreaMD
I realize its getting tiresome, and so I do appreciate the time you took to explain things here and to me personal to talk things over. You now why its important to me and/or why I think it is also important for CSDB to have this well covered and for that I salute your efforts.

Please see my reaction to Nightlord and have a look at my open question; might be a very fit way of solving future problems?

2007-07-01 22:17

Tim
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467

@steppe
darn just missed your post whilst typing.
indeed troublesome and point well taken!

2007-07-01 23:31

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053

Quote: @Dazing
Hello old friend ;) very nice to see your post.
Damnit.. I actually agree with you on the l33t or maybe better said being a success factor remark.
And ps, it was supposed to be our little secret that I never got laid :D

@Jailbird
Thanks for getting my point, I really appreciate it! And hey, of course we arent all that bad and luckily a lot of people indeed did find their way here. Were both happy there I think ;)

@Nightlord
1. Hmm, ok.. I had not looked at the ignore issue from that point of view (probably because I have not ignored anyone so far except for hitting the button by mistake once or twice) so I gave it some half hour to sink in. I surprisingly have no fitting answer here, where as to me it is not a problem to ignore someones posts, I do understand yours a bit better now.. so, thanks!

2. Hmm, yes again a very good point. All though CSDb Discussions seems to fit debating, it is not uncommon for forums (as well as many bbs in the past) to move all topics that endup in quarrels and debates to a central point to lighten up tension on the other areas of the forum.

Open question to the mods:
Is such a rule in place yet and or are you guys able to move posts to another thread?
If not, I suggest it, as it would be a very good way of making everyone happy except people who intentionally mess up or troll if you will.

Also I would find it a very reasonable ruling to kick someone out of CSDB who has been requested various times to keep arguments in the discussion zone, maybe an improvement we can all agree on? It ensures a more or less separate area for free speech/opinion and removes most trolling from the other parts of the forum, gives the mods a fair reason to act as guardians and best of all, makes it a more fair system.

2.5 well personally and outside of this discussion we think quite alike, but maybe if needed thats better talked over in a PM.

@CreaMD
I realize its getting tiresome, and so I do appreciate the time you took to explain things here and to me personal to talk things over. You now why its important to me and/or why I think it is also important for CSDB to have this well covered and for that I salute your efforts.

Please see my reaction to Nightlord and have a look at my open question; might be a very fit way of solving future problems?

- there is no possibility to move posts to other thread

- I don't think that will help unless the "trash" or "off-topic" thread is excluded from latest forum posts announcer. And still I don't think it will change the situation because when someone "intentionally mess up or troll" even after warning, we won't keep ridiculing ourselves by moving all of his posts somewhere else just because there is such place.

- Moving of posts is used for cases of unintentional off-topic posting. It's useless in case of intentional trashing. Moderator's job here isn't just organising of forum, but also prevention. In case there is too much trash produced by someone, the best prevention is to ban the person. However harsh it sounds.

- Also I don't think it's possible to have separate areas of forum. It just doesn't work like that here. And most of all. We shouldn't interchange "free speech" for "freely speaking". Moderators don't censor ideas, but unwanted behaviour.

In reality you cannot accuse organisers of supressing of your right for free speech just because they didn't allow you to read your 30 minute speech and greet all your 1345 contacts upon receiving first prize in the gfx compo.

So exactly as you say. People are requested to keep behaving some way or keep their arguments in some place. So for example release comments or oneliners aren't best place for arguments and forum isn't best place to solve personal animosities that can be (should be) solved privately.

-----

As far as CSDB organisation is concerned. I think that rules should be rewritten once more with concentration on the main purpose of this site which is database of sceners, groups, events and releases. The database integrity, completeness and correctness of information entered here is above all clashes and personal concerns. Forums, oneliners, voting, charts are just helpers to achieve this purpose/goal.

2007-07-01 23:36

The Communist

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 485

The only area trolling posts should go into is a trashcan and then I would feel like Oscar the grouch if my job would be transfering those posts into it.

The Forum should be a place for free discussions, exchange of knowledge and information but not for e.g. wisenheimer rubbish which bores some users to death and makes misgiving others.

For sure everyone can have his own opinion but some of those opinions should be better kept secret as they could show the owner in a way he doesn't want to get seen.

2007-07-02 08:04

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

I'm happy with the moderator work, and I honestly think even this topic/similar topics should be closed. I'd like to see more topics about c64 stuff instead all of these voting and moderating whinings.

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