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Eyeth
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 98 |
Emu-Fuxx0r
Hello, CSDb denizens-
I would like to bring up this subject, in a constructive fashion, however!
I recently found out that certain demo authors and groups are now using Krill's code to disable their demo offerings under c64 or 128 emulators.
I find this practive to be very shortsighted and in fact, I would vote very negatively on such behavior in CSDb or on any related votesheet.
Why go to all of this trouble in emulator detection and disabling technology. IMHO, the time *wasted* on such efforts are far better spent on NTSC fixing it so that we North American sceners can view your demo releases. (And on the real machines, I might add!) Or just add a NTSC-fixer to your demo crews and share full source code for a proper NTSC fix.
As of now, I am unable, still, to view certain demos due to no NTSC-fix and an emulator is out of the question as they are emufuxx0red! Talk about severely limiting your audience.
An c64 emulator is a brilliant piece of software engineering. The original c64 was truly inspired piece of software/hardware engineering. Are they not equal in deserving consideration and respect? The c64 audience uses both kinds, the emulation and the real thing and all of them share the common c64 computing experience.
Also, emulators are perfect for one thing; they can easily take screenshots of demo screens, even if there's interlacing effects and sprites multiplexed all over. I plan on writing newsletter articles covering the demo scene and try to bring more awareness to the North American scene regarding fine demo offerings and screenshots are invaluable.
I know that demo coders, graphicians, musicians, etc. all work together in creating inspired art on our Commodore 64's. Let's not restrict the audience any necessarily further by implementing emulator detection and shutdown. Allow any Commdore (real or emulated) user worldwide to share in the demo experience in 2002 and onwards. :)
Enjoy.
-Todd Elliott
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
It is true, it is not 100% reliable but far more reliable than before. Don't blame Krill. Blame those who use it. Also, emulators get better, maybe there will be no detection possible :) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: It is true, it is not 100% reliable but far more reliable than before. Don't blame Krill. Blame those who use it. Also, emulators get better, maybe there will be no detection possible :)
Well, Krill is responsible for the reliability of his product surely...? =-)
No, i know it's down to the users rather than Krill, "crippling" a product in this way is never going to be good for the scene. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
well it *may* be good to the scene though, in the sence that it might push emulator authors to improve their emulators. |
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axe
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 8 |
I think it's funny that Krill found a way to bypass the emulator and I understand the fun he'll be having for someone with an emulator not being able to run stuff,
but I also think it's nonsence, because there are a lot of (ex)-sceners or people who used to have a c64 who want to watch new releases on their PC and are left out.
What's the point? Face it there are less and less people interested in this old machine, so why bann people who realy ARE interested in it?
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CyberBrain
Administrator
Posts: 392 |
...Because if you see anything on an emulator, it will look acceptable at best. It's nothing like the real thing, even on the new emulators. (emulators are good for grabbing screenshots, and as a debugging tool, but not to see demos - c'mon people!) |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Quote: Apparently, some real C64s show that message too...? =-)
The only time i've seen it was the Jeroen Kimmel colly, i considered de-fuxx0ring it but couldn't be arsed.
TMR, do you know which certain C64 models show the message? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: TMR, do you know which certain C64 models show the message?
No idea, but it wasn't me who found the problem - i've just seen a few people mention it in other forums before now. Wasn't that what the problem with v1.0 of Emu-Fuxx0r was too...? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: ...Because if you see anything on an emulator, it will look acceptable at best. It's nothing like the real thing, even on the new emulators. (emulators are good for grabbing screenshots, and as a debugging tool, but not to see demos - c'mon people!)
Some people are never going to use a real C64, the ease and availability of emulators is responsible for that. In the same way that the casual viewer won't sit there for ages arsing around with the settings of their PC to run DOS demos, having to set up (or even get hold of) a C64 is a few steps further than a passive audience expects to go.
So we can either say bugger the lot of 'em and write demos that are for real machines and real machines alone (which means specifically going out and blocking emulator use) and the chances of winning new people into the scene goes downhill like a bobsleigh. Or we can be sensible and give the lazier viewers a *taste* of what the C64 can do and we may get a few peoples interest up.
Some of these would-be converts will work in emulators (which is fine, emulators are now close enough to make that possible) but others may buy a real machine - either way new blood is good. |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
MS wrote Windows. Linus created Linux. No one forces people to use them for home use. Get in contact with those who use such tools. I don't think Krill has used it on his own productions. Email the people who use it. Some people have created bad tools in the past or useless tools.
As far as I know only 1 production used it and seems pointless for it to use it. If the emulators were up to the suitable standard, this tool wouldn't make any difference. I guess this keeps Krill's mind interested and occupied. I know I often need a break from certain things as they get boring and lose interest. |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 289 |
I have to say that the emufuxxor really kills me. A prime example would be Demus Interruptus. I've always been a HUGE fan of Crossbow's, and would like to see this demo (without having to hack it-that's disrespectful) so much that I actually bought a PAL C64 and paid to have it shipped to the states. Unfortunately, there's no good way to VIEW a PAL C64 in the states, since you also need a PAL monitor. (Talking a few 100 USD to ship that over, and then there's the power problem, that should take me a few years to sort out a solution.)
To put it bluntly, my only recourse right now to see PAL demos properly is to use an emulator, and I'm pretty sad over not being able to check out DemusInterruptus without hacking it, which I won't do out of respect for Crossbow. Catch 22, huh? |
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