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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 496 |
Graphics on C64 demoscene: Guide of Ethics – a Proposal
Dear fellow sceners,
This is an attempt to get more understanding among, and for, C64 demoscene pixel artists. It’s not written to limit anyone, but a prayer for more transparency.
Read the document here: ->Graphics on C64 demoscene: Guide of Ethics – a Proposal<-
We tried to give define and value different processes. Which is a result of discussion, where we saw mutual grounds and felt the need to write these down.
We will update the document periodically, when enough input has been gathered and sorted out.
We’d really love to hear your thoughts on the subjects in the document.
Please post them in this thread.
(Personally I will not always fully comply to these guidelines myself, but I will continue to be transparant about it. However, I do agree with the values communicated in this document.) |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
If you use references, or even if you make a 1:1 copy, go ahead! Just, please credit the original. Can we all agree on that? |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Quote: If you use references, or even if you make a 1:1 copy, go ahead! Just, please credit the original. Can we all agree on that?
The ones who signed it can, obviously. :) |
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The Sarge
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 49 |
Thank you all for spending time giving your thoughts on this matter. Keep them coming! We who signed the document would however like to say a couple of things so it doesn't get misunderstood.
This is not about hindering anyone. Use whatever tool you like. But be transparent about it. If you used AI or pixeled over someone else art or converted it, state it alongside with the image or demo.
This is only about transparency and fairness to your fellow scener. We try to find the middle ground for the future.
Yes this is a hobby. For most of us it will keep being a hobby forever. But it's growing and we are actually reaching outside our usual way of showing our stuff. So therefore we should talk about the copyright since it's the law. Not much we can do about that. And it's also fair since we then again respect other peoples work.
This document is a draft and proposal. And if we have made some errors we will correct them accordingly. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Quote:You seem to have missed the wired gfx with a perfect workstage at the AI compo, or?
The point is how both of these topics are intertwined. It's possible to lead endless disputes where lies the line between utilizing certain automation tools during the act of creation, and where/when does the tool start to de facto substitute the author. I'm up for all the freedom. However, the AI brings up pretty important argument here - not regarding the conversion technique per se, but about the agency during the process. Can a person claim work as their own solely because they've ordered it as described or copied it? Whether "C64 is just a hobby" or not, it would still be inherently valuable in respect to art and to each other to be truthful about one's work and to credit it properly - pretty much like it's done when borrowing a few lines of code. ;-) Which leads to this:
Quote:Maybe it could be condensed down to the essentials like: "credit all source material, mention use of AI" (yes, this is very minimalist).
Quote:This is only about transparency and fairness to your fellow scener. We try to find the middle ground for the future. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Looking forward to what this will bring. I do fear that creating a brotherhood of pixel artists with certain ethics won't help bring this scene together.
It is however starting to become quite a supergroup of artists. I'm sure at some point coders and musicians will sign up as well. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting HeinI'm sure at some point coders and musicians will sign up as well.
Should I sign a paper that I don't use unlicensed digis for singlespeed tunes? :D |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Quoting JammerQuoting HeinI'm sure at some point coders and musicians will sign up as well.
Should I sign a paper that I don't use unlicensed digis for singlespeed tunes? :D
You can use them illegally without signing, I suppose. But that's not up to me. ;) |
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Pararaum
Registered: Sep 2018
Posts: 11 |
My working style might be a bit unique and I know that I am a nearly unknown (pixel) artist in the scene, C64 or other. I try to combine two of my passions: retro computing and oil painting, therefore I tend to do sketches in oil, digitise one, and start working from there. For those of you who are so very fond of "proof" look at https://demozoo.org/graphics/325217/ and ask sensenstahl, he got one of the sketches. This work style would be in violation of the proposal...
In my opinion such "guide of ethics", "code of conducts", find any fancy name for them, serve only one purpose in the end even if they are made in the best intent: to get rid of somebody unwelcome quickly and without the possibility of appeal. Somebody says something you do not like? Just look through her/his work, you will find something, some minor misconduct and can evict the person. And the best thing is that you now have a fantastic reason, the person broke his/her own commitment to the "guide", "code", etc.
Should it ever come to this that signing such a document is mandatory then I would leave the scene and do more oil paints.
If there are competitions which exclude wired graphics or AI generated content people should, of course, stick to it. AI content should be mentioned. Vote fairly. And so on. Just behave like a decent person. I do.
And what Burglar LMan, Nim, Pal, Peacemaker, et al. said... |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
@Pararaum:
If you look at the second table in the document, it reads to me like you and your method fall straight under that second category that says: “original pixel art - nothing needs to be proven, and your process may be kept a secret.” So I wonder how did you come to conclusion that: “This work style would be in violation of the proposal.”? Not only is your method valid, but you also voluntarily provide description of your process which is a welcome added value. |
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
For me the scene is all about the C64 and it's limitations. I'm a poor little coder and in most cases the only rule (for code) is, it has to run on a vanilla C64 with 1541. How do I get there coding wise (using a monitor, assembler (native, REU expanded or cross); using the latest crunchers to shrink it under 4k, etc.) doesn't count as long as somebody else enjoyes watching it, at least myself while doing it.
So I don't get, why there should be rules about painting. Is it more "art" when done the oldschool way, joystick and 1084 and hours of hours of clicking pixel by pixel? In the end, sometimes, i couldn't care less how a picture was painted. In most cases, someone claims his/her own work and it wasn't so, somebody will post the original. So, he/she is a liar. But a bad artist? Or is reffering to other art "bad art"?
I think we all stand on the shoulders of giants and art is always about connecting or deliminating from things done before.
And ofcourse what PAL, LMan and NIM said...
Just my two cents. |
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