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2006-01-09 11:55

hannenz
Account closed

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 24

Release id #26367 : Retro Replay ROM v3.8p

there seems to be a whole lot of confusion about this release, so i want to explain it a little.

There (definitley) is a bug in the ProgramFlasher v3.8b which is envoked by TOOL from the latest RR-ROM v3.8b. (yes, they have same version numbers.)
There are FlashUtilities Versions v0.04 & v0.05 which seem to work well but won't work on the newer revisions of RR (red board), because they don't recognise the new M29F010B FlashROM which replaced the M29F010 on older RRs.
So, owners of the new (red, revision 2004) board can't use the v0.04/ v0.05 FlashUtility and the v3.8b-one has a bug in it concerning (only!) the PROGRAM FLASHER. (Flashing whole ROMs works with v3.8b fine)

The bug is a fact. I know because i fixed it. Believe me!!
(Flashing Programs will work, but they fail to "load" after power up, because the "download" routine, which should be executed in RAM is executed in FlashROM, which crashes the machine)

I fixed this bug and "released" FlashUtiliuty v3.8p (i called it "p" because of "patch") here in CSDb.

Then I told Jens Schoenfeld about this patch and he asked me to fix the whole RR-ROM v3.8b so that he can ship RRs with the patched FlashUtility from now on. To get it straight, I called the ROM v3.8p as well. (I didn't start with confusing version numbers...;))

And to get another thing clear: I am not a member of Cyberpunx or such. I simply recognised the bug and did a fix to it. Unfortunately I couldn't get in contact with Count Zero until now.
This is no official Cyaberpunx release.

Furthermore this ROM is nothing more than the v3.8b-ROM, it just saves the patched FlashUtility v3.8p to disk when typing TOOL.
This ROM is intended to replace the v3.8b on future shipping of the RR, there's no need to update, there is a version of the FlashUtility v3.8p here in CSDb as stand-alone as well. Simply download this and use it if you want to have a working ProgramFlasher on your (new, red board) RR. Owners of older RRs can use the FlashUtility v0.05.

Hope to get some things clearer now!

... 38 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2006-01-12 07:03

hannenz
Account closed

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 24

looks great!
that's what we need, i'll be in!

2006-01-12 09:41

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

Quote:

It's about time these things are told to people. The whole RR has been shrouded in mystery with much information kept secret.

thats nonsense, i've told you numerous times on irc that all info needed to program the rr is and has been available on jens' page since day one.

Quote:

Which is only made worse by the Cyberpunx website not carrying new versions and last updated over THREE YEARS ago!

and? you should be thankful that cz made the rom and the flashutil. end of story.

Quote:

Changing from FlashUtil 5 to version 3.8 was extremely confusing! Until it was explained that "5" was in fact 0.05... And having fought with "no FlashROM found" I am annoyed that no-one took the time to tell buyers that it doesn't work with new RRs.

i am annoyed by buyers that dont understand that what they bought is the hardware, not the software. if you want to buy the software too, maybe get in touch with cz - i'm sure he will accept some additional pocket money.

Quote:

Owning a C128, it was also a big surprise that the crappy cart is extremely unreliable on a 128! Jens could've done a *LOT* better job on documentation instead of putting down IDE64...

the cart works extremely well on c64, c128 and sx-64. we've tested it on a lot of different setups. if it doesnt for you either the cart (unlikely) or the computer (very likely) has some sort of hardware defect.

Quote:

What is the dedicated mailinglist?

it was shut down about a year ago (if i recall correctly) since noone used it. ppl prefer bitching in public, as shown in your post.

Quote:

Are there any RR developers?

hardware or software?

Quote:

At least there is some programming info for it,
but MMC64-related material has apparently been classified. Oliver Achten promised to release it, but hasn't. Didn't also reply my email.

all you need to write code for it has been released. everything else is a bonus.

2006-01-12 11:47

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: Quote:

It's about time these things are told to people. The whole RR has been shrouded in mystery with much information kept secret.

thats nonsense, i've told you numerous times on irc that all info needed to program the rr is and has been available on jens' page since day one.

Quote:

Which is only made worse by the Cyberpunx website not carrying new versions and last updated over THREE YEARS ago!

and? you should be thankful that cz made the rom and the flashutil. end of story.

Quote:

Changing from FlashUtil 5 to version 3.8 was extremely confusing! Until it was explained that "5" was in fact 0.05... And having fought with "no FlashROM found" I am annoyed that no-one took the time to tell buyers that it doesn't work with new RRs.

i am annoyed by buyers that dont understand that what they bought is the hardware, not the software. if you want to buy the software too, maybe get in touch with cz - i'm sure he will accept some additional pocket money.

Quote:

Owning a C128, it was also a big surprise that the crappy cart is extremely unreliable on a 128! Jens could've done a *LOT* better job on documentation instead of putting down IDE64...

the cart works extremely well on c64, c128 and sx-64. we've tested it on a lot of different setups. if it doesnt for you either the cart (unlikely) or the computer (very likely) has some sort of hardware defect.

Quote:

What is the dedicated mailinglist?

it was shut down about a year ago (if i recall correctly) since noone used it. ppl prefer bitching in public, as shown in your post.

Quote:

Are there any RR developers?

hardware or software?

Quote:

At least there is some programming info for it,
but MMC64-related material has apparently been classified. Oliver Achten promised to release it, but hasn't. Didn't also reply my email.

all you need to write code for it has been released. everything else is a bonus.

One sentence is nonsense in here. When you buy the RR, you buy the complete RR, i.e. software and hardware!
It's nonsense this, "You buy only hardware, not the software".

2006-01-12 12:52

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

Quote:

One sentence is nonsense in here. When you buy the RR, you buy the complete RR, i.e. software and hardware!
It's nonsense this, "You buy only hardware, not the software".

NO. thats a common misunderstanding. maybe jens should stop beeing so nice and flash his hardware with a FREEWARE ROM.

from rr.c64.org:
Quote:

NOTE!

Hardware and Software described on these pages are INDEPENDANT from each other.

The new hardware is still available and sold by
Individual Computers at www.jschoenfeld.com.

from http://jschoenfeld.com:
Quote:

The software is frequently updated by freeware programmers.

i really have no idea why ppl think differently, maybe they are unwilling -or even unable- to read? i dont know.

that said, i'm going to suggest count0 to remove the old rr page, and jens to stop flashing the obsolete rom. all this whining is getting annoying, and explaining the same things over and over again to ppl not whilling to understand simple facts takes much more of my sparetime than i have ever planned to spend on it. (i guess i now understand what made count0 quit the whole thing basically).

2006-01-12 13:43

TNT
Account closed

Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 189

Quoting Groepaz

i'm going to suggest ... jens to stop flashing the obsolete rom

RR could be sold with only flash utility in ROM, forcing buyers to supply a ROM of their own choice - either from disk or through Silversurfer (I can supply code for MMC64 if needed). That would clearly separate hardware from software while still making it relatively simple to do the initial flashing.

2006-01-12 14:26

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

@tnt: except someone would also have to code a flashutil first, countzeros has simelar relation to the hardware as his rom :=P

2006-01-12 14:35

Scout

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570

Okay, I see that this thread is going nowhere now.

We have a nice new forum dedicated to the RR and related hardware.
Just let get rid of the past including the annoyances etc.
Maybe this will give CountZero (and Groepaz?) a new boost to develop things further for the cartridge.
It's a nice piece of hardware and it would be sad if it faded away.
Also the people subscribed to that forum are (IMO) serious coders that are willing to take the RR a step further.

R.

---
-= Silicon Ltd. =-
http://forum.siliconlimited.com

Commodore 64 Scenemusic Podcast
http://8bitmayhem.blogspot.com/

2006-02-07 03:44

FMan
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2003
Posts: 66

Does in your opinnion the sentence "software is updated by freeware programmers" in any way suggest that hardware and software are somehow separate? In my opinnion it clearly doesn't. And it is not the common practice! If I go to a store and buy a printer, I don't need to go somewhere else to look for the software, because software always comes with hardware, and if Jens has a different practice, then HE should make that clear on his website and everywhere else, but he DOESN'T.

Quite the contrary, as you have noted, he has been "nice" enough to deliver RR flashed with software that is independent and has nothing to do with the hardware and he also provides the unrelated software on his website and you with graham are wondering why people don't understand that Jens and RR have nothing to do with the software? You really don't see why it is terribly unclear that there is this perculiar arrangement?!?

And then you both start accusing people of whining and being lamers. Jens should have marketed the thing as not "Retro Replay", which implies freezer operation accomplished only with included software, but rather a generic empty 128K FlashROM cartridge with freezer logic. That would have made the deal clear to everyone, but Individual Computers has a policy of distributing vague information.

2006-02-07 03:53

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

you know what? write your whining into a mail and send it to jens. its getting boring. "software is updated by freeware programmers" means exactly that. no idea how you draw the connection from "freeware programmers" to "individual computers". and about common practice, have a look at other non mainstream hardware, for example console modchips - whose firmware often (most of the times) has a simelar relation to the hardware.

whatever, i can only repeat: complain at jens, quit the whining at ppl who couldnt care less.

2006-02-08 19:00

Puterman
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188

And freeware programmers are actually releasing some kickass software, so I don't understand what people are complaining about.

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