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2010-08-02 23:16

Mr. Mouse

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235

CSDb: quantify me

CSDb-based quantitative analyses of the C64 Scene

http://www.xentax.com/?page_id=235

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2010-08-03 19:19

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350

Quote:

No offence to Pegasus (and I quite like what I've just seen of his graphics) but he can't have been THAT famous if you have to say "at least round here" ;)

i dont have experience with how famous he was outside germany, sorry. but seeing how many sceners (and their productions) came from germany compared to other countries... oh well.

Quote:

If the list of credits means nothing it seems kind of pointless to use it as a point of fact to show me a "prolific" demo creator, then blame me for "having little idea".

i didnt show you any list of credits and didnt use it to show anything. i simply linked to an artists entry, no more no less. and indeed, if you didnt even *know* him, "having little idea" comes to mind. he was certainly just as known as 1001 or the judges.

Quote:

Basically nobody is trying to say stuff ONLY got produced/released on Cnet, just that despite your experience it was a massive hub for the scene (demos at least) and I thought that was what we were talking about (due to earlier posts about the demo scene)

and despite your experience, cnet wasnt all that big. it was a "hub" for a very small minority of sceners infact. mostly wannabee commercial sceners at that, which often had little connection to the rest of the scene - which *was* cracks+demos at this point, there hardly were any groups not doing both, except a small minority, eg the cnet people :)

2010-08-03 19:40

Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1646

Haha.. guys guys... You are just too much. :)

Something that comes to mind: http://youtu.be/yzUtPjbRv4U

@MrMouse:
Anyway.. Regarding the original topic, I'd say it would be nice to see some more analysis along those quantitative lines, although my guess is that people would tend to disagree about things as soon as it gets to the more qualitative matters. :) Are you planning to go further with the quantitative analyses somehow, or is this it?

2010-08-03 19:59

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

Quote: Oswald apparently you were 11 years old when "the golden age" was upon us.

do you seriously expect me to take your "experience" then as a yardstick for the demo scene?

you are like someone born in 1961 trying to tell The Who what the 60s music scene was all about.

oh and i assume u did read the wrong graph?

the right graph of 160 releases when divided amongst the 4 guys mentioned in 87 doesnt look so outlandish now does it?

Steve

CNET was non existent for me. This is my yardstick you want to refuse based on my age.

You are right, wrong chart(line), 40 pictures per guy per year still sounds too much, tho. Looking at your page here, I'd estimate you have done about 40 pictures max altogether up to date.

Also there's a picture boom in 1990, perhaps we can agree it defies that CNET was repsonsible for the peak & shrink in releases.

Just like Groepaz says I think CNET was a sub-scene not a "MAIN" sub scene but a minority. But I dont have numbers, and dont have the experience to back this up. But during my scene life I have rarely met even the word CNET. So it shouldnt be that huge.

2010-08-03 20:19

JCB
Account closed

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241

I think you guys are still misunderstanding what we're trying to get across.

It's not the Cnet was a massive userbase and produced every scene prod, it's that it did produce a lot AND pretty much everything else from everywhere else in the world got uploaded there, downloaded by everyone, spread from there to other countries. Just because you didn't see it because you weren't there didn't mean it didn't happen. It was the sheer number of new prods that everyone knew would get spread around all over the world that encouraged people to keep writing demos and start writing them.. Ok, it wasn't your experience buy don't try to tell those of us who did experience it that it wasn't the massive hub for demos/music/pictures that it was.

@Groepaz, sorry mate, you're mostly talking crap there. You talk about a prolific demo creator, point me at his page then say you didn't mean me to look at it to see how prolific he was? balls :P

As for all the crap about wannabe commercial sceners, more balls. It just happened that a lot of already commercial guys were on Cnet and we used to share code, talk about ways to do thing, get offered jobs. The fact that seems to have not happened to you guys isn't our or Cnet's fault. I got a career out if it eventually, as did a lot of other people, so now I'm not a true scener despite my output at the time? balls.

I've also done cracks, you should contact XXX of Talent/Ikari to ask him which cracks/tools for cracking I created for him. ;)

2010-08-03 20:32

STE'86

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274

but it doesnt have to be 40 pictures a year does it?

if 4 of us did 20 pictures per year, apparently that would account for 50% of the TOTAL in 1987.

to recap thats just 4 cnet guys doing 50% of the recorded c64 scene art for 87. even if u drop us to 10 each, thats still 4 people doing 25% of the worlds recorded scene art for 87.

now what about the other dozen or so cnetters who were not so prolific?

Ash, Mat, Tob, Cas et al.

and you think with those stats that us moving on from demos to games DIDN'T have any effect on art output to the "scene"?

dream on mate.

Steve

oh and Oswald, your scene life began AFTER the rest of us had finished mate.

2010-08-03 21:33

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350

Quote:

It's not the Cnet was a massive userbase and produced every scene prod, it's that it did produce a lot AND pretty much everything else from everywhere else in the world got uploaded there, downloaded by everyone, spread from there to other countries.

groups like 1001 or the judges surely didnt need cnet to spread their productions, nor did the majority of sceners get their productions through cnet - but through ordinary mail. and even often directly through those already mentioned meetings. cnet didnt play an important role as a distribution channel for anyone outside the UK really. certainly not more important than having some crazy mailswapper in your group :)

Quote:

You talk about a prolific demo creator, point me at his page then say you didn't mean me to look at it to see how prolific he was? balls :P

sorry, i mistook prolific for profilic (which isnt even a word says my dictionary =D) - moulded (every day you learn something new eh). yes he didnt have all that much output, but nevertheless he was quite well known for his high quality pictures. might also well been a german phenomenon, as the bands he borrowed his lp covers from also were quite known in germany at that time.

Quote:

As for all the crap about wannabe commercial sceners, more balls. It just happened that a lot of already commercial guys were on Cnet and we used to share code, talk about ways to do thing, get offered jobs.

i didnt mean that good or bad really. it was certainly a good place to hang out, especially if you wanted to talk to some pros and eventually become one of them. on the other hand that also means that it ruled out considerably large parts of the entire scene, which like i said, wasnt quite that divided into demos and cracks like it is today. it only was at places like cnet :)

2010-08-03 21:38

Sixx

Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229

All hail CNET.

2010-08-03 21:50

Mr. Mouse

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235

You've got a point there certainly, Steve.

Here's the authors of 1986 Graphics Releases (158 releases, I think you just misread the figure, and though it was 1986).

As you can see there's a number of 31 entries without a group or person credited for release at the Group level. That is, there is no Group variable filled in, which is different from the "credits" section. Here's them all:

Metal-Glove
Ghosts'n'Stef
A-ha
Sex Pistols
Tangent Entry!!
Star Trek
Twilight Zone
Jim Steinman
Meat Loaf II
Mindsmear
Sanxion
Robot Sands
Cyborg Pic
Rasputin Picture
Shogun Picture
Super Bowl Picture
The Vikings Commercial
Empire!
Dragon's Lair
We Picture 9
Rage in Eden
Even Passen
Ford Eat Chevy
Dante's Inferno
Dia Show
Judge Death II
Biggles
William Wobbler
Blog Hoggins
Abusers Picture
Rockford

Now, from the first table you are reported to have created 21 graphics in 1986. Perhaps you can find the other guys you were discussing. This is how the releases are listed in CSDb.

2010-08-03 21:58

Mr. Mouse

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235

Quote: Haha.. guys guys... You are just too much. :)

Something that comes to mind: http://youtu.be/yzUtPjbRv4U

@MrMouse:
Anyway.. Regarding the original topic, I'd say it would be nice to see some more analysis along those quantitative lines, although my guess is that people would tend to disagree about things as soon as it gets to the more qualitative matters. :) Are you planning to go further with the quantitative analyses somehow, or is this it?

Yes, I do intend to step up work on this and do more quantitation. Some others have already offered assistance. There is a big challenge though in getting it all to resemble the Truth, as databases usually are shaky and fishy if not done right from the start.

2010-08-03 22:10

v3to

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150

steve: envy by all means. i started doing gfx in 1986, living in a small village not knowing anybody who is interested in pixelling. first time i met other gfx artists was 4 years later. gosh cnet feels so unreal from my perspective.