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2004-08-29 14:46

Wile Coyote
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Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646

Turrican 3

Has anyone played Turrican 3? if so, what do you think :)

I've had a quick go, not had the time to have a proper go just yet. So far though i have mixed opinions. Credit where credit is due, the play does play like Turrican and Turrican 2. The graphics on level 1 seemed too much like Turrican and the 1st big (mid level) boss turned out to be a big fist, which was a bit of a let down, as after all, there is a big fist as a mid level boss during the first Turrican (although on the Turrican 3 the fist is animated).

The collision seems somewhat iffy at times, there appears to be no in game sound fx? and the screen glitches alot when lots of enemies appear on screen (although i was using an emu, so maybe this does not happen on real c64).

All in all, the game does seem like good fun. I will need to play some more to form more opinions /wec :)

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2004-08-30 17:43

Wile Coyote
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Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646

Character mode, isn't that 1 background color (fixed), 2 fixed colors and the 4th color can be changed on every character although can only use the first 8 colors out of the possible 16 (ie: black, white, red, green, cyan, blue, yellow and magenta) 256 characters (i am guessing the water is a scroll effect used on a single character while the water surface is an animation (were the animation frames in with the 256 or maybe pulled in from else where?)

Did Aeg use a combined character editor + map eidtor?

2004-08-30 17:48

cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160

I guess the best thing (but also hardest) is to have somekind of an architectural vision, like AEG or Manfred did, as opposed to doing just some "game graphics" on request. So it's still easier to do all yourself, unless ideas are communicated via some sort of sketches or art bible..

2004-08-30 18:08

Graham
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Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990

@Cruzer: read your post again and you'll notice it IS pretty complicated. you needed a lot of words to explain it :)
ofcourse, you as programmer know it by the heart, but graphicians don't. and to do anything decent with it, you need to know it by the heart + have some extra talent.

2004-08-30 18:13

SIDWAVE
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Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

I think this game is one of the best platformers ever made. I just wish you could pause+save the game anytime, because it's quite hard to play to end in one go.

The gfx is pretty good, I wonder how this is organized.. haven't really looked yet. The Return of Darkness intro stands for me as one of the best gfx demos ever made also.

The music is awesome! I don't even notice it's only 3 channels. KB, Jeff and Sonic really kick ass!

I met a few bugs, but I just wrecked my joystick and then it went ok again. I think these things should be easy to fix.

My deepest respects to all who made this game come to life, and especially to AEG, great work!!!!!

2004-08-30 18:18

_V_
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Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

Of course, charset gfx require quite a bit of skill - I am aware of the technical limitations. But, I do think many graphicians in the past managed to do just fine (Just think of any scrolling action game with nice graphics - my personal favourite is Mayhem in Monsterland).

It also depends a bit on the flexibility of the coding involved - if you can create screen elements of variable character size (and not the horrible 5x5 char blocks in SEUCK) and have a good feeling about which type of element is important and which isn't, you _can_ expect some imaginative worlds, even from a graphician.

Sorry, just had to make a modest stand against all the coding power present here ;).

I also think WEC can do some pretty good backdrops if he puts his spirit behind it.

2004-08-30 19:06

Graham
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Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990

@_V_:

sorry but i have to disagree. there might be some good games but most of them either have plain 4 color charset gfx, and those who also use that extra color look like 4 colors + some other color here and there. mayhem in monsterland is one exception, and even there many levels look like typical 4 colors + some extra ones here and there.

2004-08-30 19:09

cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160

I think it's a nice trick how AEG often uses colors $9 and $c on one side of some metallic evil structure and $6 (being the char color) and $c of other, fooled me many times thinking that the game is running in bitmapmode :)

2004-08-30 20:40

_V_
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Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

@Graham: Well, umm, yeah, in the end, when you properly analyse them, they all look like 4colours + additional colours, even the Turrican+Katakis titles (since they usually *are* 4colours + additional highlights here and there). The trick is to use it to full effect, and there, there are quite a few games which succeed. Not just Mayhem, of course (indeed, the unhappy b/w worlds look as you say, which is logical, but the happy coloured worlds are another matter), we can add the other Apex brothers games as well, and I'd say Flimbo's Quest was quite nice, as was Genloc or Another World, Stormlord (although these last games use other techniques and are limited to sideways scrolling, but still, these worlds have to be built from smaller blocks), ...

Besides, the amount of colour trickery is not that important if the charset pixelling is done correctly and to the point, what is important is building beautiful structures out of a minimum of characters. Case in point: Armalyte, Hawkeye, Midnight Resistance, Rubicon, ...

2004-08-30 21:07

Wile Coyote
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Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646

If you take a look at Metroid that is where much of the inspiration for Turrican came from. The style is at times a mixture of different styled blocks that when put together create a great look. In Turrican there is a lot of use of either a Red, Blue or Purple hires 4 character parallax scroll layer. The other trick seems to use 2 of the 16 colors that cannot be used on the 4th changable color (middle grey and brown seems quite a common combo).

2004-08-30 23:03

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: [SPOILERS AHEAD -- READ FURTHER AT OWN RISK]

perhaps it would help you guys to actually play the whole game through and especially read! the endscreen upscroller. that should clear up a few things from AEG's side, like his awareness of bugs, sources to be released, etc.

if you do not have the patience or skill to play the game fully through to the end, you may aswell just 'cheat' a bit, and jump directly to world/level 5-1.

here's how:
- insert disk one.
- start computer.
- load game up as usual.
- from intro, start a game.
- lose all lives and get game-over message.
- do not continue when asked so (you will return to intro).
- insert disk three.
- start a game again.
- you're now in world/level 5-1 (with correct graphics).
- complete world 5.
- read scroller.

you can not run from the fact that the bugs and the more-often-than-not occasional flickering overshadows this otherwise excellent game. Turrican3 is simply missing that last 5% effort that would have made all the difference in the world. it's not about development time, or that it is 'free' game. (missing) Quality-Assurance comes to my mind.

a buggy game is, after all, and quite simply, a buggy game. period.

then again, perhaps that's just my opinion and me being totally wrong/ignorant, since Im merely seeing and saying things from an endusers point of view.

finally, and according to AEG, it is not likely he'll be touching the game ever again. so your only prayer might aswell just be that somebody might have enough luck to be able to pick up on the sources once they are released, and compile a bugfixed version. or simply rewrite the (bugged) levels to comply with c64 hardware capabilities; you cant really show more than 8 sprites per rasterline, atleast not easily. ;)

and ah yes, the quote at the beginning was included as this post is also in response to one of gALAKTUS' earlier posts in this thread.

That cheating does _not_ work for me here, I have exactly done what you have said.

insert disk three.
- start a game again.

^^^^^^ At this point it doesn't load from disk three then, just nothing and I can reset my C64....

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