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wozza
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 18 |
Why bother doing a new release
For the past year I have been busy learning to code; yes I was a swapper and never had the time to learn, but now I can. I want to release something(~) and add back to the scene. I thought it would be great for a one-man show to thank some of the fine help here. The code would not the best, but certialy not the worst.
My question to everyone is: Why should I bother releasing an intro or little demo that would be old-skool, when I see the majority of user comments on releases shit-can everything? Would I get nailed because I'm a newbie coder? Or are there more mature minds here?
I need encourgement!
Wozza.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Just because you code something, doesn't mean you MUST release it.
And Wanderer, I don't think people will complain that a demo from a beginner doesn't contain record breaking stuff. They will complain however when it's shit.
But the fact that you mention stuff like plasma etc. only proves that you yourself haven't exactly got a clue what a good demo makes ;Z
I think by far the best example of how to do it is RadiantX: his demos don't contain very hard coding but from the beginning it was clear that he has a certain quality and a certain originality. That is what this scene needs imho, not just coders but coders that can bring something extra. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
TDJ: Word! |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
You missed my point entirely :)
I was trying to say that we all have to start from the ground up. True, plasma, bobs and multiplexing do not necessarily make a good demo but they do take advanced knowledge.
If we build high expectations for new coders, they will not surpass them. Allow them to start small, gradually build and refine their skills and watch them grow.
Case in point, MANY MANY demos from the 1980's were nothing more than a raster bar and text. Today we scoff at that, but if a newcomer made such a demo it should not be ripped apart. If it's a solid effort and a NEWCOMER's effort, he/she should be supported, not have their work judged as 'shit' (unless it is a self-admitted piece).
You have to learn to code before you can even consider inventing new ideas, let alone recreating old ones. Some of the comments as of late are quite nasty when it comes to critiquing demos and that does a disservice to us all IMO.
No wonder the original poster seemed fearful. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Wanderer, you seem to think that when a newcomer releases shit we have to look the other way. I disagree.
Sure, I will cut a newcomer some slack, but he still needs to bring something to the table to impress me. If he doesn't there's a good chance I will burn his ass.
That's the way of the scene - it always was and it always will be.
Yes, back in the 80's there were lots of demos featuring nothing more than just rasters and a scroll - hell, I've made several of those myself. But you know what? That's almost 20 years ago, there is simply no excuse for stuff like that in 2006.
And let me repeat: just because you code something, doesn't mean you MUST release it. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
The problem is that you cannot define 'shit' because it is based in the eye of the beholder.
If a newcomer entered the 64 scene tomorrow, and learned to code a raster bar, a scroller, to play music and move sprites on the screen - to me that is a considerable amount of knowledge for a new person. Sure, if you've been coding for a year, you should have progressed beyond that naturally.
Of course there is no obligation to release something if you're new, and this is 2006 not 1986 so we have evolved. However just because the demos have changed does not mean the learning principle or the people have.
A person just picking up a programmers manual is not going to jump from a "poke53281,0" to making Royal Arte are they now.
This is where we will agree to disagree. You would "burn his ass" for releasing such a demo and I would give him constructive criticism and say "keep up the good work, you will improve for sure". One approach dehumanizes a person, the other does not.
And of course we all know new coders are anxious to share what they've written, even if it's simple. They want to show off what they've done, they'd like feedback. Maybe it's not going to be the next Second Reality but once again, does the c64 scene need to be so ignorant to those who are only begining to pick up a new skill?
Does a newcomer have to hold off releasing his program for fear that someone else out there will deem it below 'shit' standards. You get the point... to me there's no harm in learning a new skill and showing it to others. For ANYONE to say it is 'shit' is saying, that's not good enough for me - and it's not up to you or I to make that call.
You can respond and I'll read it, but that is all I can add to this exchange of idearrrrs. :) |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
I have nothing further to add to this thread.
Coconut. |
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wozza
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 18 |
Well I think I'll wrap it here. My thread was not intended to cause any ache, so sorry if it did.
I feel encouraged to finish off what I have an move onto something bigger and better.
What I have gathered in summary is this: (with optimism)
If you are a beginner coder such as myself, and put some effort into your (first) release members of CSDb will support and encourage you.
(Others may not - but you a big enough and ugly enough to handle it arent you?)
Need help?; well bloddy well ask in the coding forum.
Try and put some originality and (maybe) storyboard flow into the design and you have a better chance of getting a more favourable review.
Gentlemen...
<twist cap off beer>
Cheers. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338 |
"I try never to rip anybody's work apart" (Wanderer)
Yeah, instead you anonymously release other people's unfinished work without their consent. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
hehehe
At one stage I posted a comment on one of WDRs demos along the lines of 'buggy, rasters bug in ntsc and pal, old effects'. He sent me a pm telling me 'all your demos are shit, absolute shit'.
hahahaha........ |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: hehehe
At one stage I posted a comment on one of WDRs demos along the lines of 'buggy, rasters bug in ntsc and pal, old effects'. He sent me a pm telling me 'all your demos are shit, absolute shit'.
hahahaha........
[ Accidentally quoted the guy with the faggy haircut ]
Lord forbid CSDB doesn't forget Mermaid's uploaded and unfinished game.
Two months later we still hear about it. Is there any point to this except to cause another forum war? Surely not. You lost nothing monetary unlike some other authors of games whose work appears on CSDB.
Time to move on. |
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