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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5096 |
Release id #237162 : Tribute to Vangelis
@4gent,
1) feels you took those quotes out of context
2) I even said to 2 girls on the schoolyard when I was 9 that I'm never gonna have sex because its disgusting
3) Talent added so much of his own, that I consider it an original work, Vermeer traced outlines with pinhole camera, Talent used another work for reference I couldnt care less. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
@Peacemaker
Quote:because, you dont seem to know it, on c64 we only have 16 colors and for color shading there is not much choices.
Gee, thanks for teaching me. Now I understand everything.
I wonder how will you feel about it once Talent comes clean about this tho... |
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Electric
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 39 |
Quoting CarrionPeacemaker Thanks for posting this. I created this anim with passion :)
@Electric.
What is you goal? What is your crusade leads to? I dont expect D-Mage to do next images. Do you want other graphicians stop doing c64 stuff too? Then only you and "real" pixel artist remain on scene?
And yes, I understand all the arguments but for me demoscene is a place to share my passion with others. How they do it is their onw choice as long as we dont harm eachother.
Your crusade Electric is IMO harmful. I have enough of it. Thanks for ruining it for me.
I think the goals have been repeated several times in this discussion already. You have pushed pixels prolly as long as I to know that copying was never liked and converting has been a no-no. This is the core.
This is not my crusade though I’ve now been targeted by several Censor members. In all there are several people who have asked about the details of Talent’s work. What we have got are two short artist’s comments that seem not to match with the outcome but partially. There’s been a long wait for the workstages (or something that shows something else than the final work) and all the rest to be opened up but nothing has really happened. As the “ninja-gate” has been on, this issue became under radar and the (mostly good) discussion has flowed since. The wait for Talent’s own outcome ended last night when Pal made his post with Zbrush ref.
The reason I’ve been active is prolly the fact that this interests me from artist rights -perspective and I’d want the demoscene to grow (even a tiny bit) healthier – to support creativity and to encourage the few newcomers we yearly might get to doing their own work, not to just copy someone else. As Talent is No. 1 artist in CSDB it is also no wonder why people are more interested in his works. I don’t have the time to go and point out all the lousy obvious convs posted here frequently but this case is special – it presents the work of a praised experienced digital artist that fastly became a phenomenon on C64 demoscene with lots of images released in very short time, created with a technique unseen through the 40-year existence of our dear scene. He is something the newcomers too will most likely first check if interested in pushing C64 pixels. Would I encourage them to go to Zbrush and steal someone's work? No. Would I give them some good works to look at, tools and process tips and a pencil / pad to start drawing? Yes.
Repeating again: everyone agrees that Talent does what he does – the outcome is beautiful in terms of the tones especially (though my wife defined most of it as 'sexist' with motifs). What has been wished here is that original artwork would be credited to the whom it belongs and not just tagged with an own signature. This relates with anyone (me, us, you) using references. Stating who made the original is not too much to ask. It’s common manners. Suppose we all could work that out better. There’s nothing taking away the passion… which I see mostly in the challenges C64 and its pixel gfx limitations provide. However, when it comes to simple converting / pipeline gfx it’s very difficult for me to understand where the passion is, unless it some hardcode algorithms one is dealing with.
And will state this once again: I do hate to go through this discussion prolly as much as you do BUT if that is what will make the scene bit healthier and open then it must be done. The private feedback from people (who don't dare to face the bash of such legends as Censor) has been very good. There are lots of people who have thanked for the discussion, privately. I understand it must be painful for you guys but I hope also that you in Censor too reconsider what you see – if you want to continue this path, just clearly credit the original artists. All good then. Problem solved. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 275 |
Quote: @Peacemaker
Quote:because, you dont seem to know it, on c64 we only have 16 colors and for color shading there is not much choices.
Gee, thanks for teaching me. Now I understand everything.
I wonder how will you feel about it once Talent comes clean about this tho...
while you are here. when do you think to credit the original work of:
Lenin
Commodore 64 Scene Database
Lenin
Commodore 64 Graphics: Lenin by 4gentE. Released on 13 February 2021
source:
https://www.etsy.com/de/listing/922636137/vintage-malerei-lenin.. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
Oh my god now you'll be stalking me?
Just so that you don't have to admit the obvious?
OK man. I give up. Not only Talent hand pixels all of his stuff, but everyone else in the scene does not.
Please forgive me for writing anything, please don't stalk me online and please don't come looking for me in front of my house for having an opinion. Mercy! |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 275 |
Quote: Oh my god now you'll be stalking me?
Just so that you don't have to admit the obvious?
OK man. I give up. Not only Talent hand pixels all of his stuff, but everyone else in the scene does not.
Please forgive me for writing anything, please don't stalk me online and please don't come looking for me in front of my house for having an opinion. Mercy!
lol. what a childish reaction of you. as if i would stalk you where? croatia (csdb says so) or ukraine (the etsy page says so) :D
all i did was a image reverse search and found that little wood masterpiece. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
Quote:all i did was a image reverse search and found that little wood masterpiece.
Which serves this conversation how exactly?
About the pictures 'you found' themselves, I guess you didn't look all that carefully (I wonder if you are at all able to) and tbh don't care either.
What you write here is for all to see and judge, I'm happy with that. And, as I said, I have no further argument to make. Everything you said is 'the truth' and I have neither means nor will to contradict. You win! Please continue on your holy quest of disrespecting Electric and other master pixellers and leave me out of it, I'm just not worth it. |
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The Sarge
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 49 |
As usual the discussion deteriorates rather quickly when some join in. Happened in the wired ninja compo too.
All we (I think I have many agreeing with me) ask for, is stop the kindergarten throwing sand at each other and have a meaningful discussion.
1. Talent showing his workflow.
2. How do we go about this in the future?
3. The scene with pixel art has been accepted as a cultural heritage in Finland and Netherlands (I think) so we have clean up our way of working. We have to make our own stuff and be proud of it! Finally we get the recognition we all deserve and use that new found respect the right way. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5096 |
Quote: As usual the discussion deteriorates rather quickly when some join in. Happened in the wired ninja compo too.
All we (I think I have many agreeing with me) ask for, is stop the kindergarten throwing sand at each other and have a meaningful discussion.
1. Talent showing his workflow.
2. How do we go about this in the future?
3. The scene with pixel art has been accepted as a cultural heritage in Finland and Netherlands (I think) so we have clean up our way of working. We have to make our own stuff and be proud of it! Finally we get the recognition we all deserve and use that new found respect the right way.
or how about none of them and instead envious pixelers guilty of doing the same thing stop acting like the spanish inqusition to discredit their competitors. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 275 |
Quoting 4gentEQuote:all i did was a image reverse search and found that little wood masterpiece.
Which serves this conversation how exactly?
About the pictures 'you found' themselves, I guess you didn't look all that carefully (I wonder if you are at all able to) and tbh don't care either.
What you write here is for all to see and judge, I'm happy with that. And, as I said, I have no further argument to make. Everything you said is 'the truth' and I have neither means nor will to contradict. You win! Please continue on your holy quest of disrespecting Electric and other master pixellers and leave me out of it, I'm just not worth it.
you accusing other peoples work as converting / wiring without any proof. and while i look at your work it shows your double standard. sure, throw your shit, but you sit in your own shitwhole. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5096 |
especially funny the latest Electric post claiming this is for the good of the scene. No, its for your envious yourself. Dude you won a compo with a work, using a photo as a reference, without giving credit, and now you are here telling everyone thats wrong. You are all over the place suggesting Talent converted, yet you ignore when I ask you to prove, it is really so easy as you claim? You are standing on nothing. Talent's picture didnt even entered any compo, its just a friggin illustration in a demo. Just stop. |
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