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2013-02-16 10:45

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

demos

READ WITH CARE AND WITH OPEN MIND:

Based on Revolved and demos like that - really great demos... but...

It is truly a beauty of a demo you have created and the hours, work and cleverness behind it must be massive!!!... Can I go beyond the normal standards here? OK? Cool... I just want to ask the c64 scene something that I really think so much about... what are we? What are the scene? Where do we want to be or where do we want to go? What if we become the producers of the all loving and polished no to argue and nothing to complain about? what is the scene then... I think this demo show some super powers in making something run smooth and so seamingless and so splendid... but where is the hard-on? Where is the humor? Where is the fun and loving bits? Where is the contrasts? Where is the black and white? Where is the FUN? When should I smile with sound and when should I cry? I meen this demo is so cool and a great piece til revolved logo is on screen and then the next effect is also cool.... then a line makes a splitt and the demo is insane cool... but after that... what is it really? For me it is people trying to make something that everyone will think is really great. It is so well made this demo so I am on thin ground here and I see that because I see the demo over and over and over again and I just envy the transition power in here and the colors and the fades and all but to me it is really mostly that... the plasma over the char squares are great also.... then the portrait part with the rotating letters, beautiful.... but so without sole... then the best part of the demo comes the rotating stuff.... from here and in it is for me just smooth moves and really beutiful work... but what I really ask is: Is this it? Is that what we are aiming for? The sphere movers are ofcourse beautiful and so cool...everything is really splendid in the demo!!! That is why I try to write this post as true as possible... how many demos like this will it take to kill our scene? We are part of something that we love and we love it because we are part of something that is NOT mainstream... so why do we push the productions to be mainstream? I meen, this is a fantastic demo, it really is and congratulations for the win, I really meen that and I hope you all can read my text in a way that is not hate, not bad or not silly, because I really meen this... Are we not men with our edge anymore? If we want to do the all perfect stuff for all humans on the planet earth, are we then not on the wrong platform??... I want to say something, want you to smile, to cry and to die because it is silly or so hard to grasp... I do not want to make smooth powerpoints with a cool sid tune on top... The cool DANE tune saves this demo even more for me even the demo in itself is so great... but the greatness is not the best for me... can I say this without beeing the worst arse in the scene? In a way I know my powers in making demos and also I know that we can make the transitions and make all blend so great but that is just not fun to do so again super thanx for your time on that, how many demos more would you like to do that on? ...maybe I just am all wrong but to me it is about effects and making some insane things on this machine and not just press the gausian blur button in photoshop and make it be so that everyone likes it... what about make someone puke... make them hate your demo... make them love it... make them be filled with anger... make them cry out of emotions, just a text like my text in Another beginning with the man in the window, it is me, give from yourself, make us beleive, make the viewers be filled with moods in different orders... make a rollercoaster ride... you do not want to go to transition world, what we want is the contrasts that shake us up a bit? the different stuff? the black and white? For me it is so...

I really think our scene will die if we try to make more and more and more transition based demos, I really do think so... I really think it is getting a tad booooooring as fuck now too... AND the worst, one do fun stuff creating a routine, then one must do all that in such a great way after? It is like wasshing the car with a thoothbrush for me in a way... I just do not think it is any fun, do all you others out there love to sit and do fades and transitions more than the effects itself? Do you? because I want to know? Can we just make us be shocked more, feel love more, feel hate more, feel joy more.... Today it is so smooth and it is so nice and it is so cool but it is our death, just because we are so great at what we do so it gets boring in the long run... we have been in this scene for so long, let us try to talk about this? I know bepp and we are so great friends when it comes to demo creating and let us face it... we are the super democreators(we are the ones, we are the c64 scene and we are the strongest because I love jan, I love bob, I love mahoney... I love to mobb lars... and so on, they love me back in a way that I can feel in my life, it is totally great, we are family you see, we are the weird ones, the ones doing this, we are great!) still beating the life in something strange and do me a favour and not let me have a hard time here... I think it is the perfect demo to post this on because I, you and all know this is a insane great demo... you won and it is great... I salute you... Ask the coders, would it be cool to make the effects and not all the transitions? And will we break the hardware more than what we do... we need to do that... in my mind! I am just a fool, but you know what? I stand for me, I stand tall above normal, abnormal... and I ask... what do we do in order to make this scene really be something for us to have in the next 30 years too... we are the best in the world at what we do... Triad - you made a fantastic demo... I just want to use the time to make a disqussion about the lot...

I want to be in the old peoplehome and do c64 demos... with transitions that will not hapen! With edge and striking moodsetters that might happen!

just me, PAL

... 65 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2013-02-18 10:32

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359

Quote:

tl;dr, I just do demos the way I like 'em

indeed =) i can say for me though that the type of demostuff i like to watch does not necessarily match what i like to code. and there is also stuff that i had a lot of fun coding, but which i will never put into a demo because its either an old idea or just boring to watch in general. and then there is stuff that i didnt like to code at all, but without them the demo would look a lot more crap (all the transition shit comes to mind there =P).

one thing though: "I really think our scene will die if we try to make more and more and more transition based demos, I really do think so..."
i really think that the time of "press space" is over now. infact it was boring already in 1996. if transitions and consistant design are what will kill the scene (as if), then i will happily help with killing it for good.

2013-02-18 10:56

Shadow
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355

This is an interesting topic.
I also have quite a bit of difference between what I like to code and what I like to watch.
When watching demos, I prefer the smooth, seamless transition style, preferably coupled with great effects and graphics.
But when coding myself? HELL NO, nothing more boring than sitting with IRQ-loaders, trying to make sure there is not a single frame out of place when transitioning from one effect to another, spending countless hours coding some god-damn move the graphics out the sideborder transition that is onscreen for 5 seconds.

But the problem is that most people (and of course that includes me, that's the worst thing) nowadays have been getting used to the smooth-total-experience, ever since Edge of Disgrace raised the bar to a insane level.

So my choices are, either code demos that most people won't enjoy (and I can't blame them, since I feel the same way), or soldier through and code the polished transition stuff even though it is not fun (not an option for me) or simply skip coding demos altogether.

2013-02-18 11:12

Killsquad
Account closed

Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 17

Quoting Groepaz

i really think that the time of "press space" is over now.

I beg to differ. I can't wait to get my hands on the press space version of "Time Machine". There's an perfect example of how a press space demo is still valid today.

Besides that, what Axis said.
"So, just do whatever demo you like. But DO IT!". I love all them demos.. well, almost all.

2013-02-18 11:18

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359

a demo that allows to hold the parts extra long as an option is not a "press space" demo to me. (a bunch of demos from HCL have had that options already, btw)
Quote:

"So, just do whatever demo you like. But DO IT!". I love all them demos.. well, almost all.

ofcourse. the only ones i really dont like are those that show all too obvious that little effort went into making them. converted gfx, effects that were old in 1986 and its buggy too. no thanks :)

2013-02-18 14:44

Peacemaker

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248

interesting topic... i want to share my thoughts....

transitions != transitions... they can be very different from demo to demo, and i think that a transition in demo1 can be very inappropriate in demo2. it depends on the style / theme / art of the demo.
i would say that transitions are a must nowaydays. but this does not mean that they need to be a masterpiece of code. even stupid $d020/$d021 fading can look nice, at the right position of the demo, when the style / theme / art allows it.

of course demos are a matter of taste. i can just speak for myself. i am a bit woried that we will have too much "EoD" styled demos in future. Ofcourse, EoD, is perfect coded and maybe will never be overtoped coding wise by another demo. But the thing is the style / theme / art is not my taste.

EoD is like an hospital to me. Clean, accurate, germ-free, scientific, technical perfect.

But I like it Grunge, mysterious, rough, impenetrable, enchanted etc., and this in an aesthetic and maybe even philosophical way with a story behind.

And thats what i would like to code too. =)

2013-02-18 15:04

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359

"transitions != transitions... they can be very different from demo to demo"
and infact the only way to avoid doing transitions is to do it like cruzer does :o)

2013-02-18 16:47

Slammer

Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 416

Yes, some transitions are really different:
The Bubble Tale

2013-02-18 17:25

Dane
Account closed

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421

This is rich. Pages after pages of complaints and wishes about how demos should be and how transitions steal all the time from coders. As if repeating your opinions over and over ever makes a difference...to anyone but yourself.

You know what - log off go make a demo about it instead!

2013-02-18 18:11

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

feels like you're reacting to all the EoD and transition criticism. Opinions are not to change anything & ppl like to share 'em. Infact after Datastorm I was also like to open a topic about demos these days.

2013-02-18 18:14

algorithm

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705

People should do demos in any way they see fit. After all c64 coding is merely only something done in spare time just for fun. The diversity makes it all the more interesting. Press space demos or not etc

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