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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
CSDb: quantify me
CSDb-based quantitative analyses of the C64 Scene
http://www.xentax.com/?page_id=235 |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Despite me continually trying to point out (seems like I have to do that a lot around here) that I'm not trying to say everything was produced BY Cnetters/UK sceners, it'd be more interesting and pertinent to the current waffle if the numbers Oswald posted were for the DATE he's talking about not total, when there are plenty of people on here with releases only starting 10, even 20 years after the big decline (and that's not a poke at anyone in particular). |
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493 |
Compunet did play a crucial role in the demoscene. Ofcourse a scene always existed next to it - but it was also a stage for many to become a professional. (e.g. getting your pictures published in Zapp64 - instant fame). And next to that, the c64 was mainstream at the time - so it attracted many talented people who wanted to be a game professional. Hence the fierce competition, which definitely put the entire scene to a higher level of quality.
I believe Compunet played a (big) role as an accelerator. Without it the scene wouldn't have been so large during the late 80ties, or the years after. People like Ash&Dave working with Maniacs of Noise putting out high quality releases, obviously aiming for the commercial market, has stirred the creativity in the scene a lot.
Personally i got involved in the scene around 87, when my brother was in close contact with the locals from the Breda area (1001, Supersonics, Terrible Two, The Judges etc). Those guys met up monthly on a local meeting, they all knew about Compunet - though i doubt it was their main motivator. (actually, i'm sure for most of those).
I think it's comparable to the 90ties internet era, where youngsters with talent could become succesful professionals, as the field of expertise was new to everyone. That attracted a lot of talented people too, having a similar stage, you could become a 'celeb' in less than 24 hours.
Which makes you wonder if some really ever cared for the 'demoscene' as such, as obviously many just wanted to get into professional game development, for which Compunet facilitated the best stage. When Compunet died, many of those guys left aswell, which kinda proves this point or atleast that they were barely connected/involved with the scene outside of Compunet. |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
I honestly don't know anyone who joined Cnet with the thought of getting work instead of just creating demos/music/graphics. The fact that those of us who joined pre-88 were generally around the right age to be needing a job happened to be in the right place to get one doing what we loved. After that I think maybe people did start joining in the hope of getting work but from what I saw at the time the quality of new stuff was rapidly declining, cnet was getting full of lamers and all the best stuff was coming from other European countries. Then Cnet died..
I think the massive decline in "releases" probably includes cracks (as Groepaz includes those)? and considering in 87 there were 1605 games released and by 90 that was down to 863 (gb64 figures) and the sheer number of same game/different group cracks multiplies the numbers. It's easy to work from figures when each demo/bitmap/music is a "new" creation than the same intro used 20 times or the same game cracked 20 times with different intros.
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
Sander i wholeheartedly agree with your post, except i think the last bit is the wrong way round, the demo groups didnt fade out when cnet did, most of the more famous and prolific demo crews left the year before to enter the games industry.
indeed if you look at the stats, most of us were only part of the "scene" as it is defined today for 2-3 years between '85-'88.
however we did not really draw a line between commercial and scene then. you could easily do commercial stuff and still hang out at the shows with the cnet demo crews. and indeed be on first name terms with alot of the top cracking crews :)
in all honesty tho, as anyone who has ever been paid for code/graphics/music will tell u, the first time you are paid for your art, your whole outlook changes, and doing stuff for free does decline.
But anyone who tells you that they wouldnt want to be paid for doing something they love is lying :)
Steve |
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Marauder/GSS
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 224 |
Have you ever thought the massive decline in 1988-90 has something to do with people were leaving school, having less time and starting to work/studying and finding other interests like hunting for chicks and party? At least I can speak for myself and lots of other guys I knew around that time...
Sure we all knew about cnet, though we don't really had direct access to it. Cnet was some kind "different" and played imho for sure a crucial role in the demoscene, an accelerator like Sander said, as we all loved watching the demos created by all those famous cnetters and hence getting influenced by them in writing also demos beside/instead of cracking games only etc. But I think the (demo-)scene would have also evolved the same without cnet...
So generally cnet wasn't the "scene", just a part of... Outside UK it didn't play that "big role", afair. The most stuff got spread by snailmail or on famous meetings like the Venlo-meetings and on great copyparties etc., like I still remember the great Danish Gold party in '87 where all famous crews had a great time in Odense. (:
Anway, the "golden age of 64" was a great time and had a big impact on most of the people being involved in the scene, no matter in which part! And that's why we all love the 64, don't we? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
"all they really say is that an awful lot of germans claim to have been part of "the scene" over the years like you do"
You are desperate to make this personal, even after I have ignored already your several childish insults, so lets make it personal:I have put more work into most of my trackmos than you put into pictures in your whole scene "life". Most of your "scene" releases are game pictures, some you got paid for, some you made to get into the paid biz. True scene spirit I'd say :)
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
"most of the more famous and prolific demo crews left the year before to enter the games industry."
who exactly ? :) |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
yeah, it a pity u didnt put a bit more work into the last version of p1 mate. u managed to break just about everything that was working when you "borrowed" the routines.
Steve |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
This thread is seriously lame.
The decline of the C64 scene had nothing to do with Cnet whatsoever. How many C64 sceners active during these years were on there in the first place? 0.1%? Jesus.
Let the english belive Cnet was ¤the scene¤ and move on..
God save the queen.
(insert personal insult about random fullscreen graphician here) |
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Shadow
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355 |
Yeah, I'm not quite seeing the "decline" in the scene in '88 or whenever it was supposed to be.
That's when it just started getting good!
Maybe the number of releases went down, mainly as earlier mentioned due to declining number of commercial games and as follows fewer cracks, but the quality of C64 demos continued climbing for sure! |
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