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2004-08-05 07:54

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5034

LCP 2004 demos

What do you think ?

I'm sad, as there were no real coder's demos.

Afrika - we 've seen all these effects 10 years before

Triad,Flt - The design / theme of the demos were not good
enough to excuse for no spectacular codings.

Effluvium - the code was not good enough to excuse no gfx/design/whatever.

are there really no coders out there, that can come up with new stuff ?

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2004-08-06 19:20

hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474

Quote: Creamd: thanks for the nice words, I absolutely agree with everything you wrote.

hollowman:

"yes, the afrika demo had effects done 10 years ago, so does
your demos"

After spending my scene career since '96 with trying to always come up with upgraded/new effects, and never recycle things, this is the most rankling statement I got. Thank you.
(and how untrue, you could not point out a single 10 year old effect at its release time in any of my demos)

Of the other opinions "I dont need new effects"... this just makes me wanna close the shops.

oswald, i'm sorry...i am all wrong, i mean a filled vector
object like in plastic kiss had ofcourse not been done
back in 94.
and yes, you always try to come up with new effects,
in void you had effects like bumpmapper,tunnel and
fireworks, and four years later you had a bunch
of new effects in soiled legacy like bumpmapper,tunnel
and fireworks.
i didnt mean to make you feel bad (if i understand the
word rankle correctly), i will try to be nicer in
the future. the positive and friendly attitude you
have shown throughout this thread will be my guiding star

creamd, so we're gonna enlarge the c64 scene by promoting
it at orangejuice and pouet. browse back through this
discussion and notice the amount of ignorant, or downright
stupid opinions about the pc scene and its demos.
if sceners on other platforms are anything like c64 sceners,
what do you think they will say and think about our
productions?

sat, so i managed to produce the worst thing you
ever seen? thats cool, the worst thing you ever seen
happens to be the same demo as the best demo a few
other people have ever seen.

2004-08-06 19:42

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

First let me rephrase my statement concerning Sat, what I meant was that I'm glad the scene doesn't consist of people like him, not that I'm glad he's not part of the scene. That's what you get for quickly wanting to type something while your g/f shouts that dinner is ready.

Second, this same discussion made Hein watch that demo and vote '10'. I know whose opinion I hold in higher regards. Then again, Hein is a bit useless, can't even code a sideborder scroll, can he?

2004-08-06 20:10

Sat
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 12

Hollowman:

Yeah I said its the worst Ive seen and I dont even award it the word demo, its art. Which isnt included in my definition of demos, and if it was the only demo I had ever seen I never would have started to program, for a fact.
It simply doesnt contain an effect or routine I find interesting but thats no wonder as youre telling a story which some like. I prefer to get my art treatment elsewhere, demos for me is about challenge and it was what started the demo concept in the first place, unfortunately this was lost/evolved as coders was needed less and less.

You would probably hate my demos and tbh these days I find most of them to have been pure crap, but damn I had fun doing them and it was a challenge to me. If you cant take constructive criticism then too bad (constructive because I already explained my view and rating system xx times in this thread)

If you read my demo definition you would know why, that however doesnt mean that everyone else can't consider it to be great and many do it seems.

But thats also whats great about demos some you love some you hate, if you had fun doing it good for you, if others enjoyed it good for them.

Demos I can rate according to my rules, but note I didnt go in a give you a 1 as a coder just because I didnt like one of your productions. If I aint allowed to express my opinion about it then what good is the vote system.

From my point of view I would rather have kefrens bars than art any day, and its sad to see that fun competition and group vs group friendly competition has gone, it was god damn fun. But I guess the people that get triggered by the word impossible knows it :)

Yeah I know art is for the masses and old school demoes are for the initiated its simple math why one is most popular.

But if I ever do another demo expect it to code porn if I can manage it.

2004-08-06 20:29

hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474

constructive is the one word that sums up this discussion

2004-08-06 21:15

Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933

Quote: First let me rephrase my statement concerning Sat, what I meant was that I'm glad the scene doesn't consist of people like him, not that I'm glad he's not part of the scene. That's what you get for quickly wanting to type something while your g/f shouts that dinner is ready.

Second, this same discussion made Hein watch that demo and vote '10'. I know whose opinion I hold in higher regards. Then again, Hein is a bit useless, can't even code a sideborder scroll, can he?

Darn, truth is difficult to handle... again a sleepless night. But I know how to handle this truth, done it before, I'm born in a programmers family, they're all so freaking smart, it made me cry in the past.. doodling all day, composing all day, it did not help... Why was Freud a doctor, and why wasn't he some simple garbage man, one of the few jobs I respect. They don't complain about the stench, pick up the garbage every week, don't complain about the vegies I throw in the grey bin, don't care if the garbage stays inside the bin after some rough shaking with the machine, shout at people with big Mercedeses that are parked on the pavement.. think they are perfect.. ah, man, boohoooo.

2004-08-06 21:27

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

C'mon Hein, you know I still like you, even though you're not worth much as a scener. And without people like you drawing pictures, FLI effects would be useless! See, not all is bad ..

2004-08-06 21:35

elkmoose

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 45

art _IS_ art

if you dont understand wank off
you dont deserve to watch it even
:P

2004-08-06 21:48

Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933

Quote: C'mon Hein, you know I still like you, even though you're not worth much as a scener. And without people like you drawing pictures, FLI effects would be useless! See, not all is bad ..

Thanks, I still like u too... not because of the milk.

I've always had the impression that ASP worked out FLI for his own plessure, but I may have had more plessure out of it. Somewhat a symbiotic relationship between coders and graphicians. Pfew, conceptual programmers must have a dualistic life.

2004-08-06 22:06

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Dang, I just wrote a beautiful post oozing with pearls of wisdom about life, death and the c64 scene .. there even was a bit about how to get a better sex-life in there as well, but it seems to be lost in cyberspace now. Ah well, let's just do the hightlights then:

- it's not often that you hear the word 'art' being used as an insult.

- Sat, looking at your profile here it seems you were never an active part of the golden scene yourself. So why act so high & mighty?

- I used to love those technical demos, Horizon was my #1 group. Then it became boring (oh look, yet another sprite in the sideborder, whatever will they think of next). Things got worse at first (I still wake up screaming, having nightmares about those horrible 4x4 block effect demos) but I'm glad that 'concept/art' demos happened, without them I for one would have left this scene a long time ago. Hell, the realization that the c64 could be used to transmit emotions even made me go active again (well, semi-active, 2 demos in the last 4 years is not that great)!

- just because some of todays demos have more depth does not make them less special

- if there were so many more sceners back in '94, why where there so few art demos back then?

2004-08-06 22:17

Cruzer

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048

TDJ, and everyone else who don't wanna lose their postings:

Always press Ctrl+A and Ctrl+C before hitting the submit button. That way your text is on the clipboard if something goes wrong.