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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Tags (yet again)
It is still unbeknownst to me why tags weren't implemented yet, or why are some so stubbornly against it. This portal is almost completely based on IMDb, and tags are one of the most useful features on that site.
Just a few of the useful features it would bring:
- finding demos containing an effect, record, theme...
- finding musics with a specific style, instrument, musical technique...
- finding images with a certain motive, character, technique, color-sceme...
- finding a specific usage of a tool/utility
- finding a magazine with an article about XY
- etc. etc...
It wouldn't take more than an hour to implement: another textbox on the "add comments" page with the Tags label (separated with commas) -> parsing the field and popping it out on the profile-page (as links, so if I'd click on a tag, I'd be redirected to a search-results page with a list of all those products where the same or similar tag was present).
Of course it wouldn't work right away, populating would certainly take some time. Just as everything else on this site.
Any thoughts? And in case of another instant rejection, I'd definitely love to get a bit more reasonable answer than the usual "I don't think we need it. Oh, and look here's my middle finger too. thxbai"
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
Quote:This selective, ignorant, deliberate blindness is simply insulting and disrespectful. Especially towards those hard working individuals who help this site by popping out actual releases instead of pushing Db data from left to right.
you dont get extra weight by producing releases. csdb is not the scene. if you produce releases, you help the scene, not the database or the site.
Quote:I'd be interested to know if he personally thinks the concept of tags is a bad idea in general
or just that they wont work because us CSDb users are a bunch of retarded lazy idiots (except for his precious 1% ofc).
infact i think that the concept of tags are a great idea - in theory. i like to compare them with communism/socialism - which are also great ideas, in theory. and all of them fail for the same reason: individuals and their individual ways of thinking, individual needs, individual preferences. this again spawns the need for creating rules, and supervising things to make sure the rules are kept. or it will result in chaos. and i have yet to see a site that uses tags were chaos is not a problem.
and if you now read the last couple of posts, you can see how the chaos emerges right now =D |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting CelticNow, i would like to have imput on how this should work with searching, and the options we already have.
As for regular search in the sidebar, the best would be to add a "Tags" item to the dropdown above the search input field. And maybe allowing OR/AND operators there too, in case of more specific searches, f.e. "vector AND tunnel AND plotter" (all three tags must be present in order to get results) - but that would be just icing on the cake. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting Groepazinfact i think that the concept of tags are a great idea - in theory. i like to compare them with communism/socialism - which are also great ideas, in theory. and all of them fail for the same reason: individuals and their individual ways of thinking, individual needs, individual preferences. this again spawns the need for creating rules, and supervising things to make sure the rules are kept. or it will result in chaos. and i have yet to see a site that uses tags were chaos is not a problem.
And of course, once again you effectively ignore something we bring up as counterexamples: http://artcity.bitfellas.org and http://c64pixels.com/main.php where tags DO WORK. Really, like talking to a wall. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
Quote:And of course, once again you effectively ignore something we bring up as counterexamples: http://artcity.bitfellas.org and http://c64pixels.com/main.php where tags DO WORK. Really, like talking to a wall.
i am not using bitfellas so i am not commenting that. c64pixels however has tags indeed - but not the way you propose them. on c64pixels there is a fixed number of tags and the pictures are tagged only by a selected few people. i would very much support that idea actually, because it effectively prevents most of the typical problems. you may ask veto about why he did it like this. (and somehow the fact that you didnt know that makes me think that you didnt really ever try to add a single tag to a picture there) |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 436 |
You guys like talking your egos out. I like talking about the solutions.
So my 5 cents:
How about providing a cloud of predefined tags for the user to select from. No typing just clicking. AJAX calls (yes it' 2012). No submitting. You've just discovered and watched the demo right. Quickly click the tags: IFLI, PLOTS, FPP. Done.
And you can add your own tag, if let's say more than 5 people has added the same tag it will be added to the cloud. Simple. No moderation needed. Self regulating system.
A narrow group of moderators (that 1%) could have an option to click to remove them.
For a quick demo of how it works, sign up for delicious.com and bookmark a page, i.e. csdb (and no I am not their affiliate!)
Or just check out this demo and start typing anything... http://remysharp.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/tagging.php |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote:i am not using bitfellas so i am not commenting that. c64pixels however has tags indeed - but not the way you propose them. on c64pixels there is a fixed number of tags and the pictures are tagged only by a selected few people. i would very much support that idea actually, because it effectively prevents most of the typical problems. you may ask veto about why he did it like this. (and somehow the fact that you didnt know that makes me think that you didnt really ever try to add a single tag to a picture there)
I'm aware that on both of these sites tags are added by the moderators, but if that's your only concern, let's have a system where only a selected number of trusted people would be able to tag releases (or approve/dissaprove/moderate tags entered by the general userbase). Some of us would gladly volunteer to add and maintain tags. If anything gets fucked up, you'll even have who to blame by name. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
as said, i can see it working (only) this way. it must be made sure that tags are only used for the kind of info which isnt really suited for "real" database entries. for example if we had a "koala" tag, it should *not* replace the graphics-type/koala database field - but instead every entry whith this graphics type should be equivalent to every entry tagged as "koala" when it comes to searching/browsing.
at the end its all more a question of how the frontend interface works rather than if it is "tag based" or "classic database", for the most part IMHO. obviously the frontend could also simply silently convert the "koala" tag into "graphics-type/koala" each time a graphics release is tagged "koala" ... (and if i'd be more into php+sql i might have suggested that its time to finally think about csdb v2 again at this point... =P)
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting Gropeazas said, i can see it working (only) this way. it must be made sure that tags are only used for the kind of info which isnt really suited for "real" database entries. for example if we had a "koala" tag, it should *not* replace the graphics-type/koala database field - but instead every entry whith this graphics type should be equivalent to every entry tagged as "koala" when it comes to searching/browsing.
That's exactly how I thought about tags in the first place, so it's more than fine with me. Does this means that after all we settled on a solution which would suit both parties? I can't fucking believe it! :)
Dedicated users for tag-moderation will probably result in more work for Perff, though. So it would be great if he'd also state his opinion on this matter. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11384 |
Quote:Dedicated users for tag-moderation will probably result in more work for Perff, though.
i'd just make that a trusted user feature (and have one or two more of them eventually). |
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Conjuror
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 168 |
For a user interface implementation, I'd suggest grouping the tags by category and make them push on/off buttons, which are saved at the same time as the entry. They could still look like a text tag 'cloud' with some sort of colour, background or border? to show they are selected. The read-only view showing only those tags selected (obviously)
Maybe still offer a field for new tags which are moderated.
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