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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
** Link removed by CSDb staff due to copyright. Please do not provide download links to this **
Well, there has been a few of these notices today, on certain Protovision releases that have been cracked and released by some people on CSDb.
Cracking has always been a large part of the scene, arguably the biggest and also what has ultimately ensured the scene to exist today.
If it weren't for cracking, piracy if you will, many games simply wouldn't be available on the web today. The C64dtv wouldn't have much of a lineup, all the games on it were cracks from the scene.
Now this issue has come to CSDb again, over old releases of Protovision games. Download links removed, to files which are definitely a part of the scene.
I can understand the policy on this, it's a way to protect CSDb against legal action. Other sites, for instance GB64, have tackled this by not hosting the files and just providing links to them.
But CSDb won't allow even that, if someone has an issue with their copyrighted work being available, the links will be removed. Even links provided by the user in their comment to the entry, will be censored and removed.
There is nothing regarding this policy in the CSDb FAQ, yet there is this disclaimer:
"Who's responsible for this?
We cannot take responsibility for the content of this database as all information is submitted by users."
So, that says straight out that CSDb is not responsible for the content.
It can be said that this is a way to protect CSDb in future, but from whom exactly? Can anyone honestly see Chronosoft or Protovision sueing anyone? Or if this is a measure to protect CSDb, could it go further and remove all cracks from the site?
On the other hand, CSDb are just trying to protect themselves, from Protovision apparently. Should we take the old debate over piracy directly to Protovision? As sceners themselves, they should know better than to be taking on this issue against sceners. Don't we all know by now that the people who would download these cracks, are not the same people that would buy it? That some of the people that get the game for free may even consider buying it at a later point?
One of the Protovision founders was a cracker himself, other members have been crackers, swappers or undoubtedly recipients of pirated software themselves.
This seemed to start with Macgyver altering a release of a PTV game here yesterday. A member of Protovision and also a CSDb admin. He was a swapper in the past.
Is this censorship really necessary? Do Protovision really think they would lose sales of these games, does CSDb really think there is any threat of legalities from an admin of this site?
This is an issue that strikes deep with many in the scene, and this site is an essential part of the scene today.
Surely there must be a better way to deal with this.
So let's discuss it here rather than in comments on these censored releases ;) |
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anonym
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 266 |
Seven pointed me to this discussion - and to my surprise we are warming up the same discussions again.
In any case, a public statement with regards to the accusations of 'taking over' locked entries in the 'db' from the admin team or the accused would be appreciated.
If the assumed rules have changed, it would be helpful to know the new rules, and to see that they applied to everyone. What about 'stolen' music in demos for example? ;-)
/Frank |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
Since some people here seem to be born clueless, I guess I need to spell it out...
People responsible for something like
Mega Starforce Remix
have no right to suddenly go all huffy about copyright.
It's as easy as that. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048 |
Quote: we've been discussing transparent votes for years now, but the very same administration that refuses to do something about it is the very same administration that allows MacGyver to do as he sees fit, to unlock cracks of his own games while his own claim to fame (if you can call it that) is a so-called story-board (read: textedit) of an X-Ample game.
Clearly, we're working with two standards here... games by others are fair game for MacGyver, MacGyver/PTV games are taboo...
braindead yet?
There is one difference. That game is an old game, those games are (more or less) new and in distribution. I can't take this from you as a killing argument, although I admit that it's lame to claim full credits for remixed game.
I don't know if Burglar reacted on your post, but I agree with him, such behaviour as with MegaStarforce Remix is silly.
Roman |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
I was responding in general.
Anyway, my crack of Ice Guys got censored, eventhough the game is from 1997, so the 'new' issue doesn't count at all.
It's just silly. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
I think this blows way out of proportion.
Being The Copyright Hater, I see this removing as a futile attempt to preserve something that is freeware for a long time now.
What is the %$#$&%# point?
But if Protovision has the true (c) mark,I can understand that they need all the money they can get,just to cover the expenses. |
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Earthshaker
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 118 |
If this MacGyver guy doe so much work on this site, why hasn't he responded here? And where are the site maintainers? Maybe they can clear some things up. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048 |
I don't see that cracking is a driving force of todays C64 scene. But I must admit that it's the most anoying part of todays scene, especially with all those irritated returning sceners who despise oldie cracking groups and with all this serious fuzz around newly cracked games. It's almost as anoying as game remakes, mp3 remixes and retro. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
just remove the damned games already. they donnt belong here if they arent cracks (and thus not scene related)
and everyone else gets a 10 as cracker from me now
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
Enno beat me to it, anyways...
Ice Guys is from July 1997.
That's almost 8 years.
It was 'censored' "due to copyright".
Most of the games on here are copyrighted.
Protovision members cared shit about copyrights in the past and present, as long as it's not "their" money on the line.
I don't see why the scene should readly accept and support hypocrites like that.
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
Quote: MacGyver is member of my group - Dmagic. He does a lot of support for c64.sk and CSDB which cooperate together since the beginnig. It's a positive cooperation for both sides and if you have individual problems with Maccie please discuss them privately with him. The Protovision releases aren't your property, so how can you blame him for guarding it the every possible way, especially when he does a lot of other things which help this database? There are other ways how to get that "live" software. Get it on ftp sites, or ask for e-mail sending or whatever else. Do you really need to have download link here? If you do, ask Perff for direct answer.
One thing is keeping scene traditions, and other is direct spitting into face of Protovision members and programmers, some of them even sceners. It's a "doublethink" paradox of this scene. But consider the fact that this is happening publicly and online. It's not as in past, when this was a sort-of undergorond activity. Now when there are no law enforcements and no criminal prosecution of such activites it's just about communication between us sceners. I find it quite malicious to blame Protovision for their naive, but understandable activities.
roman
have you checked macgyvers profile here?
centric+4/flt orginal supply: macgyver
spitting in the face of reflex is ok, or was he just young and naive? i'm sure you can think of an excuse to defend his actions, since that seems to be your main activity here at the moment |
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