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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Balloonacy 2 idiocy
I have to feel so bad for Richard, being brave enough to release his own game without trainers.
Within 24 hours of his releasing a game, there appears a 2 trainer version. An hour or two later a 3 trainer version. The next day there's a 4 trainer version and finally a 6 trainer version.
I'll hold out for the Nostalgia +20 version with hi score saver. *groan*
Richard must feel like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie feel when the National Enquirer vultures swoop down upon them. Granted you're open game when you release something but it's pretty laughable to see so many people pounce upon Richard's game like a homeless man chasing a bagel rolling down the street.
Let's clear this up to save time:
MEGA TRAINER
=============
Change $7003 to JMP $2c00
2c00 jsr $70a1
2c03 jsr $ffe4
2c06 cmp #$2a
bne XX
inc $09
XX rts
This plays the music while giving you the key when you hit the star key.
======================
Infinite Lives: EA EA EA (three NOP's) at $394e
==========================
Infinite time: EA EA EA at $3ba1
==========================
Sprite Collision off = RTS at $3a9d
Save $e000-$f000 when you go to save the memory.
We need a starting level option and a button to hold down for temporary sprite collision bypass. I'd laugh but I'm sure in a day this WILL happen. Mark my words.
*sighs* Note to Richard, perhaps in your next game you could include a hidden trainer with every conceivable option. Granted your game was difficult to play but I hate to see it re-released without your intro and directory tree.
PS. All the above was done without looking at any of the versions out there. I became bored :) |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Yes. Ideally IMO game coder could/should 100% disregard what goes on in the cracking scene, especially as it isn't now even a question of real piratism / lost profits.
Hidden selfmade ingame cheats (usually activated by typing something) are however good idea, not to discourage training, but to act as safeguard for bad/lazy players to get to the end even in case the game never gets trained.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: i'm just a c64 scene "watcher", and probably i don't know something essential, but what is wrong to release a _trainer_ for a pd game? trainer is trainer! game is game!
That's a valid question and it goes back to my original post.
Okay you need a trainer, infinite time or sprite collision. But it just never ends... you get +3, +4, high score saver, IFFL versions, and even +20 (I've seen one game with this many).
I've been around for almost 20 years and I think I can form an opinion that this is no longer about making a trainer to play the game but just to better the last person and get "your" release out. I highly (and I posted this almost a year back) doubt anyone's going to care if Quest for Tires or Pac Man has an extra 4 trainers or not.
The games were released 20 years ago, played to death, and now they are played no more. But that's only my thoughts.
If one group releases a trained version, fine.. but do we really need +6 followed by a +10 version a week later?
I could, in theory, go through all of Gamebase's games and put out 2000 new games with 20 trainers in them. Does the 64 scene need it? No. Will a lot of people see it? Likely not. Will the game actually be played? I very much doubt it.
I realize there is nothing but hours and hours of free time now that the game scene is dry. In my time, you had no time to make many trainer versions because you were too busy working on the next crack. One day we put out 6 games, so time was limited on the cracker.
In the old days once you put out the version you were done. You didn't go back to make a +3 followed by a +10 version. There were standards, today there are none.
It's your right, but AFAIC it's really just very sad and lame to see 4 version of a new game in 24 hours.
Richard, I call upon you to end this madness. Include an in-game trainer. I remember one of the first games I played was Blue Max and it had a secret code you'd enter to cheat. I never did figure it out but the trend of cheating is not new.
Save us Richard, save us :)
Okay this thread is too long. The fire marshall is threatening to close it for too many people are in here. So I'm going to vacate the building.
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3051 |
Quote: That's a valid question and it goes back to my original post.
Okay you need a trainer, infinite time or sprite collision. But it just never ends... you get +3, +4, high score saver, IFFL versions, and even +20 (I've seen one game with this many).
I've been around for almost 20 years and I think I can form an opinion that this is no longer about making a trainer to play the game but just to better the last person and get "your" release out. I highly (and I posted this almost a year back) doubt anyone's going to care if Quest for Tires or Pac Man has an extra 4 trainers or not.
The games were released 20 years ago, played to death, and now they are played no more. But that's only my thoughts.
If one group releases a trained version, fine.. but do we really need +6 followed by a +10 version a week later?
I could, in theory, go through all of Gamebase's games and put out 2000 new games with 20 trainers in them. Does the 64 scene need it? No. Will a lot of people see it? Likely not. Will the game actually be played? I very much doubt it.
I realize there is nothing but hours and hours of free time now that the game scene is dry. In my time, you had no time to make many trainer versions because you were too busy working on the next crack. One day we put out 6 games, so time was limited on the cracker.
In the old days once you put out the version you were done. You didn't go back to make a +3 followed by a +10 version. There were standards, today there are none.
It's your right, but AFAIC it's really just very sad and lame to see 4 version of a new game in 24 hours.
Richard, I call upon you to end this madness. Include an in-game trainer. I remember one of the first games I played was Blue Max and it had a secret code you'd enter to cheat. I never did figure it out but the trend of cheating is not new.
Save us Richard, save us :)
Okay this thread is too long. The fire marshall is threatening to close it for too many people are in here. So I'm going to vacate the building.
Making game with trainers included won't help. There still be someone who to "retrain" it. It's quite weird that even today with all the technological advantages there are, some crackers are able to put up buggy release. Some of Cadaver's games got bugged during the proccess.
It's hard to come up with any way of game releasing that could be considered safe from cracking. It's a wicked circle.. you can make it free.. open source (there was some logic game with source released, and the person stopped development after he realised that there is a crack).. cooperate with crackers in good faith (Newcomer game).. crack it yourself (Cadaver's game).. include please don't crack note (Savage Plattforms).. *anything* and there still be someone to crack it becasue that's how it works since ages. Also even if you release a propper crack of your own game(like Cadaver did) because there are just bugged ones around, there be people complaining that you don't respect the old rules. I'm sure I forgot (or intentionally ommited? ;-) many other real-life examples of how this weird business behave nowadays... The best thing is either not to bother with it, or stop making C64 games. There is no way to avoid it. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
This has nothing to do with cracking... |
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cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935 |
Zyron, your right, it has all to do about intro linking and training :)
Funny to see this thread growing and growing while the
only reason TROEP released a +6 version was to annoy
Hema with their +4 release.
All just for good fun and certainly not intended to
take the piss on Richard.
+20 versions of games are in my opinion not worthless,
and back in the earlier days I always kept for example
the jewel versions from Snacky above the +2 trained versions of other groups.
Niels |
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The Overkiller
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342 |
Quote: This has nothing to do with cracking...
Mainly because there's nothing to crack in Richard's games, these are trainers adding. These releases are lame ? Could be !! But I prefer lame activity than NO activity. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Quote:Also even if you release a propper crack of your own game
As far as I remember, there was no proper release of BOFH V1.0 (only the beta) for months, so it was done for that reason only. In the end it got Triad to release a superior version though. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: Mainly because there's nothing to crack in Richard's games, these are trainers adding. These releases are lame ? Could be !! But I prefer lame activity than NO activity.
word! :) Silvio I agree with you (as always, heh).
Still so many games that deserve a crack, i.e. working version such as Turrican III or Outrun Euopa (version 2 from 1991 since it has tunes that fall out of sync), a year 2000 fix for LCP, etc etc :) |
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Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 411 |
Quote: Mainly because there's nothing to crack in Richard's games, these are trainers adding. These releases are lame ? Could be !! But I prefer lame activity than NO activity.
I disagree. This would be like 80-year old people acting as if they were 20. |
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Kyle
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 31 |
I'm still waiting to see a 100% cracked and trained version of Exile ;-) anyway.... |
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